Calvinism and the word "WORLD"

T

Truster

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Epoisses said:
You can't even admit that you're a Calvinist which makes you a liar and an incompetent one at that. You can't even lie right!
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I'm a Messianist if you must have an "ist".

PS I find it laughable that any doctrine you don't understand is Calvinism.
 
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Charles94 said:
So, to be clear, you are openly denying the Jesus of the Bible who clearly REFUSED to pray for the world:

John17:9 “I do NOT PRAY FOR THE WORLD."

He did NOT pray that the world be protected from the Evil One. He did NOT pray that the world should come together as one. Seems odd that if His sacrifice was for every single person, His intercession was expressly limited. Still waiting for an explanation but you just seem to run back to your no-context prooftexts - maybe you have cut John17:9 out of your Bible with scissors?



"Universal" atonement sounds great until people notice that you've redefined "atonement" to merely mean "potential atonement" which is nothing more than a con game moving cups around. Your words don't have meaning. You teach of a "savior" who does not save and an "unlimited atonement" that does not atone for sins. Do you really pray "God, I thank you for saving and atoning for the sins of Judas and all those who rejected your Son in the past...and similarly for saving me and atoning for my sins..."? (Just seems like it can't be good for giving you much assurance.)

I notice you have run from any attempt to address John17:9, also.



Well, the Bible makes clear that God's wrath still abides on some - if Jesus is looking forward to His enemies being made His footstool, then their sin problem is still very much a problem.

Heb10:13-14...from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

The cross only accomplished something for those who are being sanctified in space and time. Until you can explain what that one offering accomplished for His enemies (and why He refused to pray for the world in John17:9), I really can't take you or your anathemas all that seriously.

Calvinists have a saying, "God is God and we are not." We don't know who will or won't receive the gospel. A nice suburban mom with a minivan might reject it and a war criminal might accept it and be saved. But your eagerness to make God seem nice requires you to deny that God declares the end from the beginning and accomplishes all that He desires - you re-create God in your limited and time-bound image so that you claim He has to hope for the best for every single person because He doesn't know the future. That is something the wicked would do. (Psa73:11)

Jesus gave Himself up for His sheep - He knows us by name. (John10:3,14-15) OTOH, Jesus taught that those who do not believe, refuse to believe because they are not of His sheep (John10:26) - you will answer to Him as to why you reverse His logic instead of believing His teaching...

(And since no one has quoted John Calvin yet so far as I can tell, it just makes you look like a lunatic for saying that anyone considers him a prophet. Jesus said if you loved Him, you'd obey Him...but bearing false witness doesn't seem to be the problem for you that it should be...)
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When Jesus came to earth, he came for those who ALREADY belonged to God.

Jesus did not yet allow all to come to him to be saved, he came for those who already belonged to God.

They were God's,

and God gave them to Jesus.

They were God's but they now had to go though Jesus to remain God's.

Jesus said when he is crucified, then everyone can come to him, but he came first for those who already belonged to him.
 
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Truster said:
I'm a Messianist if you must have an "ist".

PS I find it laughable that any doctrine you don't understand is Calvinism.
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Eposises and you are a show of ensnared people to do the devil's will, IMHO. You both go around being bitter and telling others what hell is like and how they are going there; instead of telling people how to get closer to the Lord.
 
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Epoisses said:
This fits into the real gospel better than yours where Christ has redeemed the whole world but only believers bring forth fruit unto God. The 'world' is only saved in Christ and it does not become theirs personally until conversion. So we have a 'world' that is saved in Christ and a 'world' that is broken up into sheep/goats - believers/unbelievers and when we look at John's writings in their entirety this is exactly the way the word 'world' is used. You try to make 'world' into world of the elect and it is never used that way not even one time - it is always everyone or the evil of the world.
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This world is going to be made anew.
 
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Epoisses said:
No it's a full and complete atonement, one that is perfect, finished and complete. There is not one good deed of man in this atonement and it has forgiven the sins of the whole world. Jesus is in fact the savior of the world and John 17:9 is merely Christ showing his foreknowledge of the sheep versus the goats which has nothing to do with the cross.
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Of course the sheep and the goats have to do with the cross.
 
T

Truster

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patrick jane said:
Truster is very careful with his words to make sure he is doing God's will :rotfl:
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Wherever I am, whatever my intentions, thoughts, words and deeds. I know for an absolute fact that I am in the centre of the will of the Eternal Almighty for my life and salvation.
 
T

Truster

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Epoisses said:
You just made that up, Clavinist patsy!
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As I've stated elsewhere. Anything, which is most things, you don't understand, you declare it to be Calvinist. It satisfies your limited mental and non existent spiritual capacity, but leaves you looking foolish. This suits you, so I won't advise you to repent, because you can't.
 
Epoisses

Epoisses

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Truster said:
As I've stated elsewhere. Anything, which is most things, you don't understand, you declare it to be Calvinist. It satisfies your limited mental and non existent spiritual capacity, but leaves you looking foolish. This suits you, so I won't advise you to repent, because you can't.
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Do you believe in limited atonement? As Calvinists are the only Christians that adhere to this.
 
Epoisses

Epoisses

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John 3:16-18: “For God so loved the Elect world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the Elect world to judge the Elect world, but that the Elect world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”

John 15:18-19: “If the Elect world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the Elect world, the Elect world would love its own; but because you are not of the Elect world, but I chose you out of the Elect world, because of this the Elect world hates you.”

John 17:14-18: “I have given them Your word; and the Elect world has hated them, because they are not of the Elect world, even as I am not of the Elect world. I do not ask You to take them out of the Elect world, but to keep them from the evil one. They are not of the Elect world, even as I am not of the Elect world. Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth. As You sent Me into the Elect world, I also have sent them into the Elect world.”
 
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