Calvinism and the word "WORLD"

T

Truster

New member
Epoisses said:
John 3:16-18: “For God so loved the Elect world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the Elect world to judge the Elect world, but that the Elect world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”

John 15:18-19: “If the Elect world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the Elect world, the Elect world would love its own; but because you are not of the Elect world, but I chose you out of the Elect world, because of this the Elect world hates you.”

John 17:14-18: “I have given them Your word; and the Elect world has hated them, because they are not of the Elect world, even as I am not of the Elect world. I do not ask You to take them out of the Elect world, but to keep them from the evil one. They are not of the Elect world, even as I am not of the Elect world. Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth. As You sent Me into the Elect world, I also have sent them into the Elect world.”
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You seem to be ignorant of the fact that election works both ways. In that sense you are also elected, but unto blindness.
 
C

Charles94

New member
Epoisses said:
No it's a full and complete atonement, one that is perfect, finished and complete. There is not one good deed of man in this atonement and it has forgiven the sins of the whole world. Jesus is in fact the savior of the world...Yea, the whole world is justified, sanctified and glorified in Christ.
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This is complete nonsense. Atonement is "at-one-ment" - it means that there is peace/harmony with God. Justified is declared right before God. Sanctified means purified and cleansed from sin. I have no idea what you think glorified means.

John3:36, Psalm2 and Heb10:13-14 all teach that God's wrath continues to burn against part of this "world." God would never cast into Hell someone who was justified and for whom atonement has been made, as He is at peace with those individuals. “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered." (Rom4:7; Psa32:1)

Epoisses said:
This fits into the real gospel better than yours where Christ has redeemed the whole world but only believers bring forth fruit unto God. The 'world' is only saved in Christ and it does not become theirs personally until conversion. So we have a 'world' that is saved in Christ and a 'world' that is broken up into sheep/goats - believers/unbelievers and when we look at John's writings in their entirety this is exactly the way the word 'world' is used. You try to make 'world' into world of the elect and it is never used that way not even one time - it is always everyone or the evil of the world.
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you proved otherwise right here:

Epoisses said:
John 3:16-18: “For God so loved the Elect world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the Elect world to judge the Elect world, but that the Elect world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
Click to expand...

Logically, if God did not send His Son into the world to judge the elect world, then only those outside that elect world could possibly be "judged already" as God's wrath abides on them. Those outside the "elect world" (who will never come to saving faith in space and time) cannot be declared "blessed" (Rom4:7; Psa32:1) because their sins have not been atoned. This interpretation of John 3:16-18 holds up perfectly.

But instead, your "logic" tells you that it makes more sense that Jesus is the Savior of the unsaved and He atoned for the sins of those who He will cast into Hell. That would be hysterical if the topic weren't so important...


Epoisses said:
John 17:9 is merely Christ showing his foreknowledge of the sheep versus the goats which has nothing to do with the cross.
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The sheep could never be declared righteous apart from the cross, so that's not true. You also might want to consider that more of the Bible reflects a God with perfect foreknowledge than you currently are willing to admit.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Charles94 said:
This is complete nonsense. Atonement is "at-one-ment" - it means that there is peace/harmony with God. Justified is declared right before God. Sanctified means purified and cleansed from sin. I have no idea what you think glorified means.

John3:36, Psalm2 and Heb10:13-14 all teach that God's wrath continues to burn against part of this "world." God would never cast into Hell someone who was justified and for whom atonement has been made, as He is at peace with those individuals. “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered." (Rom4:7; Psa32:1)



you proved otherwise right here:



Logically, if God did not send His Son into the world to judge the elect world, then only those outside that elect world could possibly be "judged already" as God's wrath abides on them. Those outside the "elect world" (who will never come to saving faith in space and time) cannot be declared "blessed" (Rom4:7; Psa32:1) because their sins have not been atoned. This interpretation of John 3:16-18 holds up perfectly.

But instead, your "logic" tells you that it makes more sense that Jesus is the Savior of the unsaved and He atoned for the sins of those who He will cast into Hell. That would be hysterical if the topic weren't so important...




The sheep could never be declared righteous apart from the cross, so that's not true. You also might want to consider that more of the Bible reflects a God with perfect foreknowledge than you currently are willing to admit.
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You heretics and Calvinist are always screwing with God's word. There is nothing in the Bible about an "Elect world". The Bible plainly says that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.
 
Epoisses

Epoisses

New member
Charles94 said:
This is complete nonsense. Atonement is "at-one-ment" - it means that there is peace/harmony with God. Justified is declared right before God. Sanctified means purified and cleansed from sin. I have no idea what you think glorified means.

John3:36, Psalm2 and Heb10:13-14 all teach that God's wrath continues to burn against part of this "world." God would never cast into Hell someone who was justified and for whom atonement has been made, as He is at peace with those individuals. “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered." (Rom4:7; Psa32:1)

you proved otherwise right here:

Logically, if God did not send His Son into the world to judge the elect world, then only those outside that elect world could possibly be "judged already" as God's wrath abides on them. Those outside the "elect world" (who will never come to saving faith in space and time) cannot be declared "blessed" (Rom4:7; Psa32:1) because their sins have not been atoned. This interpretation of John 3:16-18 holds up perfectly.

But instead, your "logic" tells you that it makes more sense that Jesus is the Savior of the unsaved and He atoned for the sins of those who He will cast into Hell. That would be hysterical if the topic weren't so important...

The sheep could never be declared righteous apart from the cross, so that's not true. You also might want to consider that more of the Bible reflects a God with perfect foreknowledge than you currently are willing to admit.
Click to expand...

Romans 5 is the downfall of you and your Calvinist logic.

The whole world with every one in it was lost in Adam with his original sin.

The whole world with everyone in it was justified by the 2nd Adam and his one sacrifice.

Every human being has 2 possible destinies. There is no other way of saying it any more clearly. Christ has redeemed the whole world but you have to believe it to receive it. Christ as the savior of the world simply means that believers receive a finished product that has been finished in Christ for 2000 years.
 
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