calling Pope Father.. Jesus used term "Father Abraham"

[Cruciform]

Yes, post 96 stands exactly as the theological mess that it is.

Feel free, then, to actually disprove its content (sorry, but mere denial does not constitute a disproof), particularly since your subsequent complaints have already been categorically refuted in Post #131 above.

I await your "informed rebuttal." :darwinsm:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[glassjester]

Now you got it.

So when you read Jesus' words, "Call no man father." You do no interpret them literally. You take them to mean, "Call no man father - except the ones you, GT, personally want to make exceptions for."

How do you obey Jesus when he says call no man 'father'?

Yes - this is good to talk about. Who was wrongly being called "father" at the time of Jesus' words? And on what grounds were they assuming this title?

I told you how I obey.

Yet you don't. You are willing to call any number of men "father," as long as they meet your preferred conditions for exemption from Christ's prohibition.

So what makes your interpretation the correct one?

 

[God's Truth]

So when you read Jesus' words, "Call no man father." You do no interpret them literally. You take them to mean, "Call no man father - except the ones you, GT, personally want to make exceptions for."

Jesus was speaking Spiritually.

Tell me, how do you obey what Jesus said?

Yes - this is good to talk about. Who was wrongly being called "father" at the time of Jesus' words? And on what grounds were they assuming this title?

Just call no brother father. Can you do that? Can you obey Jesus?

Yet you don't. You are willing to call any number of men "father," as long as they meet your preferred conditions for exemption from Christ's prohibition.

So what makes your interpretation the correct one?

Believe and obey Jesus, and you will find out.

 

[God's Truth]

I dare you, call no brother in Christ 'father'.

Start obeying Jesus.

 

[glassjester]

Jesus was speaking Spiritually.

About whom? Who was wrongly assuming the title of "father" at that time?

 

[God's Truth]

About whom? Who was wrongly assuming the title of "father" at that time?

Jesus said do not call anyone father. He was speaking to all the brothers.

 

[God's Truth]

There are many who like to ask questions and have those questions answered, but they themselves refuse to answer questions.

 

[Cedarbay]

From Catholic Answers website

Question:

If a Protestant believes he cannot call a Catholic priest "Father," is there a respectful alternative he can use?


Answer:

A Protestant who believes in a literal interpretation of Matthew 23:9 could use the title he uses for his own ministers, for Catholic priests.

Most priests would not mind being called, "Reverend" or "Pastor," for example.

If the priest says, "Call me ‘Father,’" the Protestant could smile politely and say, "I’m sorry; I can’t." The priest will understand.

 

[God's Truth]

Glassjester, are you going to obey Jesus and stop calling your brothers in Christ 'father'?

 

[God's Truth]

From Catholic Answers website

Question:

If a Protestant believes he cannot call a Catholic priest "Father," is there a respectful alternative he can use?


Answer:

A Protestant who believes in a literal interpretation of Matthew 23:9 could use the title he uses for his own ministers, for Catholic priests.

Most priests would not mind being called, "Reverend" or "Pastor," for example.

If the priest says, "Call me ‘Father,’" the Protestant could smile politely and say, "I’m sorry; I can’t." The priest will understand.

I would not call a Catholic priest father, pastor, or reverend.

 

[glassjester]

Glassjester, are you going to obey Jesus and stop calling your brothers in Christ 'father'?

Can I refer to Paul as "Father in Christ Jesus, through the gospel" ?

 

[CabinetMaker]

Can I refer to Paul as "Father in Christ Jesus, through the gospel" ?

You could always look at the openings of the letters that Paul sent to various churches. He never opened a letter by saying he was their father. He said he was an apostle. So call him Paul or The Apostle Paul.

 

[God's Truth]

Can I refer to Paul as "Father in Christ Jesus, through the gospel" ?

You should call him brother just like he would call you.

You did not even first hear about the gospel from Paul, you probably heard it from your mother. Maybe you want to call your mother 'father'?

 

[Wick Stick]

Can I refer to Paul as "Father in Christ Jesus, through the gospel" ?

Request denied.

You may, however, call him "Paulos Doulos," since that is how he referred to himself.

 

[glassjester]

Request denied.

You may, however, call him "Paulos Doulos," since that is how he referred to himself.

He also referred to himself as "Father in Christ Jesus, through the gospel" to the Corinthians.

 

[God's Truth]

He also referred to himself as "Father in Christ Jesus, through the gospel" to the Corinthians.

So how do you obey Jesus when he says call no brother in Christ 'father'?

You keep wanting to show that Paul had others call him father, but there is no such scripture where he tells anyone to do that, and there is no scripture where anyone called him 'father'.

Do your brothers in Christ tell you to call them 'father'? Yes, they do.

Is there times where you have called them 'father'? Yes, many times.

Do the Catholic "fathers" call each other 'father'? Yes, they do.

 

[glassjester]

So how do you obey Jesus when he says call no brother in Christ 'father'?

He was using hyperbole, just as when He forbade us all from calling any man, "teacher." (How, by the way, do you obey Christ when he says to call no one on Earth, "Teacher" ?) Or when he said to follow Him, we must hate our father and mother.

How do I obey His words in Matthew 23? I do not honor any man on Earth in place of God. I do not follow any man on Earth with the loyalty and sonship due only to my Father in Heaven. I do not put the teachings or doctrines of any man before those of God, my Father in Heaven.

You and I agree that Jesus was not condemning the word "father," in itself, for you still accept its use whenever you deem it appropriate. He was condemning following and honoring men of Earth over God in Heaven.

At the time he spoke these words, Jewish leaders titled themselves teachers and fathers of various, sometimes contradictory, schools of religious thought. Jesus is against sectarianism. This is consistent with the rest of the NT. Be of one faith, right? Do not say "I follow Paul" or "I follow Apollos." Right?

This would be an example of what Jesus prohibited - making your religion about a particular, man-made sect - rather than giving this reverence to our Father in Heaven.

Do not say "I follow Luther," or "I follow Calvin," or "I follow Joseph Smith."
Follow Christ. Follow God.

You keep wanting to show that Paul had others call him father

He wrote to Corinth, calling himself their father in Christ. Do you mean to imply that if they'd written back, using the same terminology, he'd have denied the very title he'd used for himself?

He also calls Timothy "Son." What does that make him, to Timothy? Do you truly believe that Timothy would be wrong to call Paul his father in faith?


Fun conversation:
Paul: Hello, Timothy, my own son in the faith.
Timothy: Hello, Paul, my own fath-
Paul: No. Don't call me father.
:hammer:

 

[Wick Stick]

Request denied.

You may, however, call him "Paulos Doulos," since that is how he referred to himself.

He also referred to himself as "Father in Christ Jesus, through the gospel" to the Corinthians.He also referred to himself as "Father in Christ Jesus, through the gospel" to the Corinthians.

http://thatsthejoke.net/

 

[God's Truth]

He was using hyperbole,

No such thing. Jesus means what he says.

just as when He forbade us all from calling any man, "teacher." (How, by the way, do you obey Christ when he says to call no one on Earth, "Teacher" ?)

We are not to call a brother in Christ thee Teacher.

Or when he said to follow Him, we must hate our father and mother.

I can hardly believe that you think you can discard Gods words.

If you do not do what Jesus says and hate your father and mother, you will never really know how to love them.

How do I obey His words in Matthew 23? I do not honor any man on Earth in place of God. I do not follow any man on Earth with the loyalty and sonship due only to my Father in Heaven. I do not put the teachings or doctrines of any man before those of God, my Father in Heaven.

You and I agree that Jesus was not condemning the word "father," in itself, for you still accept its use whenever you deem it appropriate. He was condemning following and honoring men of Earth over God in Heaven.

Jesus meant it when he said do not call your brothers in Christ 'father'.

At the time he spoke these words, Jewish leaders titled themselves teachers and fathers of various, sometimes contradictory, schools of religious thought. Jesus is against sectarianism. This is consistent with the rest of the NT. Be of one faith, right? Do not say "I follow Paul" or "I follow Apollos." Right?

That is another thing the Catholics do not obey. The Catholics say they follow Peter.

This would be an example of what Jesus prohibited - making your religion about a particular, man-made sect - rather than giving this reverence to our Father in Heaven.

Do not say "I follow Luther," or "I follow Calvin," or "I follow Joseph Smith."
Follow Christ. Follow God.

You forgot about Peter. The Catholics say they have apostolic succession from Peter.

He wrote to Corinth, calling himself their father in Christ. Do you mean to imply that if they'd written back, using the same terminology, he'd have denied the very title he'd used for himself?

He also calls Timothy "Son." What does that make him, to Timothy? Do you truly believe that Timothy would be wrong to call Paul his father in faith?

Paul calls Timothy 'brother'.

See 1 Thessalonians 3:2.

Fun conversation:
Paul: Hello, Timothy, my own son in the faith.
Timothy: Hello, Paul, my own fath-
Paul: No. Don't call me father.
:hammer:

Peter did not call Paul 'father'. Peter says that Paul is a brother.

2 Peter 3:15 Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.

 

[Cruciform]

No such thing. Jesus means what he says.

Matthew 5:29-30 ~ So, then, when will you be plucking out your eyes and cutting off your hands...? :think: