calling Pope Father.. Jesus used term "Father Abraham"

[God's Truth]

Enough dodging. Jesus says to call no man Father. Do you believe his words in a literal sense or not?

Do you believe that no one at all, no matter what, under any conditions whatsoever, should be called "Father"?

Do you believe Jesus when he says eat his flesh?

You have no understanding about what is of the Spirit and what is of the flesh.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Enough dodging. Jesus says to call no man Father. Do you believe his words in a literal sense or not?

Do you believe that no one at all, no matter what, under any conditions whatsoever, should be called "Father"?

Since Jesus never said what you have said here, your questions cannot be answered. They are a logical fallacy because you have grossly misquoted scripture in an attempt to lay a trap.

 

[Cruciform]

Since Jesus never said what you have said here, your questions cannot be answered. They are a logical fallacy because you have grossly misquoted scripture in an attempt to lay a trap.

Still waiting for your reply to Post #165 above.

 

[glassjester]

Since Jesus never said what you have said here, your questions cannot be answered. They are a logical fallacy because you have grossly misquoted scripture in an attempt to lay a trap.

Matthew 23:9 - Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.


Do you believe His words in a literal sense, or not?

 

[glassjester]

I do not understand GT's hesitance to answer this unambiguous question.

 

[glassjester]

Matthew 23:9 - Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.


Do you believe His words in a literal sense, or not?

Maybe CM will respond?

 

[God's Truth]

I do not understand GT's hesitance to answer this unambiguous question.

Why won't you answer?

 

[glassjester]

Why won't you answer?

What's your question? I will answer.


Mine is this: Do you truly believe Christ's words in a literal sense, when He says to call no one on Earth "Father" ?

 

[CabinetMaker]

Matthew 23:9 - Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.


Do you believe His words in a literal sense, or not?

I understand the context of the passage in which Jesus spoke them. Thus, I am free to call my Dad father but I am not free to call one who has spiritual authority, for lack of a better term, in my life father.

Said differently, I understand Jesus's words to be literally true within the proper context of His entire teaching in the passage.

 

[glassjester]

I understand the context of the passage in which Jesus spoke them. Thus, I am free to call my Dad father but I am not free to call one who has spiritual authority, for lack of a better term, in my life father.

Said differently, I understand Jesus's words to be literally true within the pepper context of His entire teaching in the passage.

I appreciate the genuine answer.

 

[God's Truth]

What's your question? I will answer.

Jesus says we are brothers in Christ and not to call anyone father'.

I obey Jesus by not calling any brother in Christ 'father'.

It's all about obeying the Lord.

How do you obey?

Mine is this: Do you truly believe Christ's words in a literal sense, when He says to call no one on Earth "Father" ?

Of course, Jesus means what he says.

 

[God's Truth]

"Three" what?

One God the Father who lives in unapproachable that no one has seen or can see. One God the Father with a body, who came to us in the flesh as Jesus Christ the Son. One God the Father whose Spirit goes forth from Him without limit.

 

[Cruciform]

One God the Father who lives in unapproachable that no one has seen or can see. One God the Father with a body, who came to us in the flesh as Jesus Christ the Son. One God the Father whose Spirit goes forth from Him without limit.

As I observed earlier---and as you show in your above comments---you are indeed a God-denying, anti-Trinitarian non-Christian. May God help you embrace him as he is.

 

[God's Truth]

As I observed earlier---and as you show in your above comments---you are indeed a God-denying, anti-Trinitarian non-Christian. May God help you embrace him as he is.

Catholics made up the trinity doctrine, just as they made up the other false doctrines.

 

[glassjester]

Jesus says we are brothers in Christ and not to call anyone father'.

I obey Jesus by not calling any brother in Christ 'father'.

It's all about obeying the Lord.

How do you obey?

I've highlighted your contradictory statements above.
Also, I addressed your question in Post #157.

Of course, Jesus means what he says.

Yet you deem it acceptable for a Christian to call his biological father, "Father."

Did I miss something? That's not literally obeying Christ's words, man.

 

[CabinetMaker]

What do you suppose Jesus meant by saying this? (If you don't know the answer, just say so.)

This commentary more eloquently states what I understand Jesus to be discussing in the passage.

Mark 9:42-50 – Nurturing the Community’s Faith 42 “It would be better to put a millstone around the neck and then to throw into the sea whoever causes one of the little ones among those who trust in me to stumble. The location of this passage within the narrative may serve to indicate how it is to be interpreted. It is clearly embedded in a series of passages reflecting interactions and attitudes within the community. It is not a commentary on private conversion. Jesus was concerned with the danger of members of the community leading others into loss of faith in the Kingdom message. The word rendered as cause to stumble is literally translated as “scandalise”. It was used first in the interpretation of Jesus’ parable of the seed (where it was translated as “fall away”) and referred to those who lost faith in face of trouble or persecution (4:17). It was then used of the townspeople of Nazareth who did not open in faith to the person and message of Jesus (6:3). It would figure again in the disciples’ loss of faith on the occasion of Jesus’ pending arrest (14:27). Given the context, the following comments about the body’s different limbs and organs are better interpreted metaphorically as referring to the community’s members. (The metaphor was not uncommon in secular literature and had also been used by St Paul in some of his letters to the Churches). 43 If your own hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better to enter eternal life disabled, than with two hands to be thrown into Gehenna, into the fire that never goes out.[44 omitted] 45 If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better to go into life lame than to be thrown into Gehenna with two feet.[46 omitted] 47 If your eye causes you to stumble, pull it out. It is better to enter the Kingdom of God with one eye, than with two eyes to be thrown into Gehenna,48 where ‘their worms do not die and the fire does not go out’.” If the passage is interpreted metaphorically, Jesus was referring to the need to isolate from the community known or potential apostates. In the situation of extreme pressure (supposed in the previous response to John) where the community was in danger of breaking up, severe measures were to be adopted to protect its integrity and perseverance in faith.

Source

 

[God's Truth]

He was using hyperbole, just as when He forbade us all from calling any man, "teacher." (How, by the way, do you obey Christ when he says to call no one on Earth, "Teacher" ?) Or when he said to follow Him, we must hate our father and mother.

How do I obey His words in Matthew 23? I do not honor any man on Earth in place of God. I do not follow any man on Earth with the loyalty and sonship due only to my Father in Heaven. I do not put the teachings or doctrines of any man before those of God, my Father in Heaven.

You and I agree that Jesus was not condemning the word "father," in itself, for you still accept its use whenever you deem it appropriate. He was condemning following and honoring men of Earth over God in Heaven.

At the time he spoke these words, Jewish leaders titled themselves teachers and fathers of various, sometimes contradictory, schools of religious thought. Jesus is against sectarianism. This is consistent with the rest of the NT. Be of one faith, right? Do not say "I follow Paul" or "I follow Apollos." Right?

This would be an example of what Jesus prohibited - making your religion about a particular, man-made sect - rather than giving this reverence to our Father in Heaven.

Do not say "I follow Luther," or "I follow Calvin," or "I follow Joseph Smith."
Follow Christ. Follow God.






He wrote to Corinth, calling himself their father in Christ. Do you mean to imply that if they'd written back, using the same terminology, he'd have denied the very title he'd used for himself?

He also calls Timothy "Son." What does that make him, to Timothy? Do you truly believe that Timothy would be wrong to call Paul his father in faith?


Fun conversation:
Paul: Hello, Timothy, my own son in the faith.
Timothy: Hello, Paul, my own fath-
Paul: No. Don't call me father.
:hammer:

What you say here is how you DON"T obey Jesus.

You talked yourself out of obeying by saying Jesus did not mean what he said.

Catholics do not obey God; they find all sorts of ways to disobey and do what God hates.

God says TO THE BROTHERS not to call anyone 'father'.

Catholics: God did not mean what He said, so we will call our priests 'father', and we will have them call each other 'father'.

God says do NOT bow to statues.

Catholics: We can bow to the statues of those in the Christian religion.

God says Jesus is the only mediator between God and man.

Catholics: Mary would also be a good mediator.

The devil says, "Did God really say you must not _____?"

 

[God's Truth]

This commentary more eloquently states what I understand Jesus to be discussing in the passage.

Mark 9:42-50 – Nurturing the Community’s Faith 42 “It would be better to put a millstone around the neck and then to throw into the sea whoever causes one of the little ones among those who trust in me to stumble. The location of this passage within the narrative may serve to indicate how it is to be interpreted. It is clearly embedded in a series of passages reflecting interactions and attitudes within the community. It is not a commentary on private conversion. Jesus was concerned with the danger of members of the community leading others into loss of faith in the Kingdom message. The word rendered as cause to stumble is literally translated as “scandalise”. It was used first in the interpretation of Jesus’ parable of the seed (where it was translated as “fall away”) and referred to those who lost faith in face of trouble or persecution (4:17). It was then used of the townspeople of Nazareth who did not open in faith to the person and message of Jesus (6:3). It would figure again in the disciples’ loss of faith on the occasion of Jesus’ pending arrest (14:27). Given the context, the following comments about the body’s different limbs and organs are better interpreted metaphorically as referring to the community’s members. (The metaphor was not uncommon in secular literature and had also been used by St Paul in some of his letters to the Churches). 43 If your own hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better to enter eternal life disabled, than with two hands to be thrown into Gehenna, into the fire that never goes out.[44 omitted] 45 If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better to go into life lame than to be thrown into Gehenna with two feet.[46 omitted] 47 If your eye causes you to stumble, pull it out. It is better to enter the Kingdom of God with one eye, than with two eyes to be thrown into Gehenna,48 where ‘their worms do not die and the fire does not go out’.” If the passage is interpreted metaphorically, Jesus was referring to the need to isolate from the community known or potential apostates. In the situation of extreme pressure (supposed in the previous response to John) where the community was in danger of breaking up, severe measures were to be adopted to protect its integrity and perseverance in faith.

Source

I do not believe Jesus was talking "metaphorically".

The sinners who do not believe Jesus, they will not cut their hand off anyway; and those who believe Jesus will stop sinning and will not need their hand cut off.

 

[CabinetMaker]

I do not believe Jesus was talking "metaphorically".

The sinners who do not believe Jesus, they will not cut their hand off anyway; and those who believe Jesus will stop sinning and will not need their hand cut off.

I do believe that Jesus was speaking metaphorically in the passage. The context and the cadence indicate that He was most likely speaking about the community. Jesus would know that your eye or hand do not cause you to sin. But if you think of the eye and the hand as being representative of various leaders within the community then the passage is clear. Get rid of leaders that would lead the entire body of believers into sin and condemnation. It wont be easy, but it is worth it.

 

[Cruciform]

Catholics made up the trinity doctrine, just as they made up the other false doctrines.

Post #193