Biblical Flat Enclosed Earth and Firmament

[patrick jane]

One of the best videos I've seen yet by far. Pay close attention to read the captions and fully understand what you're seeing and reading. Excellent footage and detailed information. Worth watching to be sure.

To ensure a full screen view on some computers, be sure to click on the link instead of the image. Clicking the image can cut off half the screen and if you're on a phone you don't have to worry about it.

Flat Earth - Light and Shadows


https://youtu.be/kDGLFs0xo_0 - 25 minutes - Enjoy

Genesis 1:14 KJV - And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

 

[patrick jane]

One of the best videos I've seen for being in an enclosed flat earth and firmament I've seen yet. Pay close attention as everything you see is explained in detail with captions on the screen. Worth watching to be sure and you may have to pause to read the words while fully understanding what you are seeing, but it's not complicated.

One of the best videos I've seen yet by far. Pay close attention to read the captions and fully understand what you're seeing and reading. Excellent footage and detailed information. Worth watching to be sure.

To ensure a full screen view on some computers, be sure to click on the link instead of the image. Clicking the image can cut off half the screen and if you're on a phone you don't have to worry about it.

Flat Earth - Light and Shadows


https://youtu.be/kDGLFs0xo_0 - 25 minutes - Enjoy

Genesis 1:14 KJV - And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

Psalm 148 KJV - Praise ye the Lord. Praise ye the Lord from the heavens: praise him in the heights.2 Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.
3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.
4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.
5 Let them praise the name of the Lord: for he commanded, and they were created.
6 He hath also stablished them for ever and ever: he hath made a decree which shall not pass.
7 Praise the Lord from the earth, ye dragons, and all deeps:
8 Fire, and hail; snow, and vapours; stormy wind fulfilling his word:
9 Mountains, and all hills; fruitful trees, and all cedars:
10 Beasts, and all cattle; creeping things, and flying fowl:
11 Kings of the earth, and all people; princes, and all judges of the earth:
12 Both young men, and maidens; old men, and children:
13 Let them praise the name of the Lord: for his name alone is excellent; his glory is above the earth and heaven.
14 He also exalteth the horn of his people, the praise of all his saints; even of the children of Israel, a people near unto him. Praise ye the Lord.

 

[patrick jane]

Does the Bible ever use the words: on earth or on the earth or on the "world" - Is it always "in the earth" or "in the world"? Like in a flat enclosed earth and firmament?

God never called earth a planet did He? Did God ever imply that the earth was moving through the firmament or in the firmament?

 

[patrick jane]

THE UPCOMING DECEPTION IS NEAR!


From the video description:
I was intrigued by the illuminati cards and how many events they've depicted have actually came true. There were some I thought were bogus and would never happen. However, new evidence is pointing toward the fact that these cards might be true.

In the video, you hear about Werhner Von Braun, former NAZI rocket scientist who turned to God and Jesus Christ later in life. On his tombstone is his name, years of birth and death and one scripture: Psalm 19:1 KJV - The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

Several scriptures are shared in the video.

https://youtu.be/DOxWSNzpDmI - 8 minutes - Click on link for full screen view - Clicking on image sometimes cuts half the screen but not on a phone

 

[Lon]

Does the Bible ever use the words: on earth or on the earth or on the "world" - Is it always "in the earth" or "in the world"? Like in a flat enclosed earth and firmament?

Matthew 6:10?

God never called earth a planet did He? Did God ever imply that the earth was moving through the firmament or in the firmament?

From what I know, the firmament is the atmosphere. The atmosphere would never leave the earth.

A couple of scriptures talk of the earth moving, but usually associated with judgement? Isaiah 13:13 Job 9:6 Psalm 50:1 Isaiah 48:13 Psalm 75:3

2 Peter 3:5 seems to put the earth into the heavens, rather than vise versa.

 

[patrick jane]

I am posting this 3 minute video to demonstrate how the sun allegedly drags the planets along while our solar system rockets through space at a speed of hundreds of millions of miles per hour. I have trouble accepting this model and I have yet to see any scriptures that support the heliocentric models.


https://youtu.be/0jHsq36_NTU - 3 minutes - click on link for full screen view

 

[patrick jane]

A previous post updated

A previous post updated

Genesis 1:1-19 KJV - In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

According to my interpretation, the sun and moon were created on the fourth day. The moon gives off it's own light NOT the reflection of the sun. On the first day God created the heaven and the earth, darkness was upon the firmament (heaven) and the earth. God created Light and divided the light from the darkness. God named the light Day and He named the darkness Night. That completed the first day.

The two great lights must be the sun and moon. Now on day one God create the heaven and earth but on day two God made the firmament, so what was Heaven on the first day? Also on day two God called the firmament Heaven. That completed the second day. Day three God called the land earth and the water seas and created man, all animals and plants. Not until day four does God place lights in the firmament for signs and seasons and created stars. God put them in the firmament to give light upon the earth and to divide the light from the darkness, again. The waters above the firmament imply a dome of some kind to me, surrounding and covering the earth, sky and firmament. I think clouds and rain are in the air just as the fowl of the air. The earth doesn't necessarily have to be flat for us to still be in an enclosed earth and firmament, imo. So why do I think it's possible and actually described to be flat by God? In another post or over the course of many posts I will show how interpret numerous other scriptures of our cosmos being enclosed, the earth having foundations and created to be fixed and immovable or stationary. There are verses about circle and above the circle, face, lines, boundaries and many more key words that lead to my belief that it's possible.





Here's a few scriptures that describe earth as either fixed, immovable, or stationary with foundations. Some descriptions by God with words like breadth which is not a globe measurement that can be taken and bounds and boundaries. And some that where God describes earth as a circle in an enclosed earth and firmament. And God describes the firmament (outer space) as being hanging over the earth like a garment or tent stretched out from the north. The north in a flat earth model would be at the center of the circle with all the land masses and oceans surrounding it.


Words like breadth, circle. dome (in Hebrew), compass, foundation, immovable, fixed, etc. And words like garment and tent stretched out fro the north.
Job 38:18 KJV - Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.



Isaiah 40:12 KJV - Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?
Isaiah 40:21-22 KJV - Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in Isaiah 40:28-31 KJV - Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the Lord, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.
29 He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.
30 Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall:
31 But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
Job 38:4-21 KJV - Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.
16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?
17 Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?
18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.
19 Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof,
20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?
21 Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great?
Job 38:31-36 KJV - Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?
33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?
34 Canst thou lift up thy voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?
35 Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go and say unto thee, Here we are?
36 Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?
Romans 11:33-34 KJV - O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

I believe that God knows exactly which words He uses and tells His Prophets to write. His word is perfect and will be preserved for eternity. God's ways are past finding out. We think we know how everything began? The big bang, evolution from monkeys, and now we are cloning animals, eventually people, manipulating and changing DNA, and thinking we know about the composition of the firmament? I believe every one of these things are a lie and completely untrue. Satan deceives us in many ways, sometimes very big lies and deceptions. Maybe the principalities and powers in high places don't want us to know the truth because the whole world would know that God is real and believe in Christ. That's only one of many reasons why they won't tell.
Ephesians 6:12-13 KJV - For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
When reading the Bible it helps to look up key words and phrases for the Bible definitions. They can sometimes vary from a modern day dictionary. I use the King James Dictionary and you can research at :
KJV Dictionary - Definitions of words from the King James Bible

 

[Derf]

That was amazing. I wish it would have been the full screen but wow. Those shots of the beautiful sun God created left me awestruck. All I saw was a flat horizon from 120,000 feet. starting a 6:20 to the end are the best evidence of no curvature. Who can debunk that?

You can, but it takes some effort. If you look at the early shots, when there's a fair amount of camera instability and very little expected curvature, you can see that the shots with a horizon below the midline of the picture are concave up (looking like an upright bowl). The shots with the horizon above the midline are concave down (like a rainbow). These shots help to characterize the lens being used.

If you then look at the high altitude shots, you can see some of the same phenomenon--when the camera is pointed above the horizon, the horizon looks like a bowl, and when pointed below the horizon, the horizon looks like rainbow. So find a shot where the horizon is below the midline but not very far below. This positioning would be expected to render the horizon as a bowl (concave up). Then hold a straight-edge to the screen You will see that it is concave down. thus, the curvature of the earth is enough to offset the camera effect when the horizon is near the midline.

I spent a fair amount of time taking screen shots (use the [<Alt> Prt Scrn] button combination on a windows PC, go to a program like "Word" or "Powerpoint" and paste). Then you can add horizontal and vertical lines. I did this, but I'm not sure I can get my results to a place where I can reference them from a thread post.

Well, maybe I can. Click on these links:
1. Horizon below midline


2. Horizon above midline


3. Horizon near midline

My added lines should show both horizontal and straight to give you a point of reference for determining curvature.

 

[patrick jane]

You can, but it takes some effort. If you look at the early shots, when there's a fair amount of camera instability and very little expected curvature, you can see that the shots with a horizon below the midline of the picture are concave up (looking like an upright bowl). The shots with the horizon above the midline are concave down (like a rainbow). These shots help to characterize the lens being used.

If you then look at the high altitude shots, you can see some of the same phenomenon--when the camera is pointed above the horizon, the horizon looks like a bowl, and when pointed below the horizon, the horizon looks like rainbow. So find a shot where the horizon is below the midline but not very far below. This positioning would be expected to render the horizon as a bowl (concave up). Then hold a straight-edge to the screen You will see that it is concave down. thus, the curvature of the earth is enough to offset the camera effect when the horizon is near the midline.

I spent a fair amount of time taking screen shots (use the [<Alt> Prt Scrn] button combination on a windows PC, go to a program like "Word" or "Powerpoint" and paste). Then you can add horizontal and vertical lines. I did this, but I'm not sure I can get my results to a place where I can reference them from a thread post.

Well, maybe I can. Click on these links:
1. Horizon below midline


2. Horizon above midline


3. Horizon near midline

My added lines should show both horizontal and straight to give you a point of reference for determining curvature.

Interesting. Thanks for that. I took screen shots with my eyes though, and I see no curvature when the balloon and camera were level, which only happened maybe 5 or 6 times in the whole video. I don't know if your eyes are being fooled during the screen shots or mine are, I don't know about the lens/camera or the balloon etc. If I took three screen shots they might show a flat plane. It's good work and tedious what you did, and I appreciate it, but I trust my eyes. I watched it 3 or 4 times. I know you're not biased so maybe I'm seeing what I want to see. :idunno:

 

[Derf]

Matthew 6:10?


From what I know, the firmament is the atmosphere. The atmosphere would never leave the earth.

A couple of scriptures talk of the earth moving, but usually associated with judgement? Isaiah 13:13 Job 9:6 Psalm 50:1 Isaiah 48:13 Psalm 75:3

2 Peter 3:5 seems to put the earth into the heavens, rather than vise versa.

I would suggest that the "firmament" is more likely what we call "outer space".


[Gen 1:14 KJV]
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

[Gen 1:17 KJV]
And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

[Gen 1:20 KJV]
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl [that] may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Young's Literal Translation renders the last verse thusly:
[Gen 1:20 YLT]
And God saith, `Let the waters teem with the teeming living creature, and fowl let fly on the earth on the face of the expanse of the heavens.'

So "in the open firmament of heaven" might tell us that the firmament starts in our atmosphere and that the "openness" of the atmosphere might refer to the ability for birds (and people, eventually) to fly there fairly comfortably (until the airlines shrink the seats down to nothing).

Or the "face of the expanse" suggests the birds are flying on the "surface" of outer space. I'm ok with either, and there are likely some places that talk of the atmosphere as part of "heaven".

But if the "firmament" is everywhere between the waters below (oceans) and the waters above (???) and the firmament contains the stars, then the idea of a dome of water doesn't make sense without some equivocating on the meaning of "firmament". I tend to think that the waters above the firmament refer to something we have yet to observe, but it might explain some of the conundrums modern science currently faces, like why it looks like the expansion of the universe seems to be speeding up, and perhaps how that expansion occurred in the first place.

 

[Derf]

Interesting. Thanks for that. I took screen shots with my eyes though, and I see no curvature when the balloon and camera were level, which only happened maybe 5 or 6 times in the whole video. I don't know if your eyes are being fooled during the screen shots or mine are, I don't know about the lens/camera or the balloon etc. If I took three screen shots they might show a flat plane. It's good work and tedious what you did, and I appreciate it, but I trust my eyes I watched it 3 or 4 times. I know your not biased so maybe I'm seeing what I want to see. :idunno:

That's why I recommended the straightedge. Try it. You can even do it by pausing the video. Our eyes are often fooled into thinking straight lines are crooked and vice versa.

You of course recognized that there were significant numbers of shots that showed a reverse curvature, right? So I can't see how anything you gather from that video would be helpful, unless you can show where the camera effect is nulled out.

 

[Right Divider]

More bias interpreting scripture. Take off the anti-fact glasses and read it without first deciding what it MUST say.

Ps 104:1-7 (AKJV/PCE)​

(104:1) Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. (104:2) Who coverest [thyself] with light as [with] a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain: (104:3) Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind: (104:4) Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire: (104:5) [Who] laid the foundations of the earth, [that] it should not be removed for ever. (104:6) Thou coveredst it with the deep as [with] a garment: the waters stood above the mountains. (104:7) At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away. ​

From this highly FIGURATIVE passage, you're going to extract ONE VERSE that you THINK helps support your preconceived idea..... think again.

REMOVED is NOT the same as MOVED (or immovable).

The word for REMOVED is mowt as I have explained to you BEFORE....

H4131 מוֹט mowt (mote) v.​

1. to waver.​

2. (by implication) to slip, shake, fall.​

[a primitive root]​

KJV: be carried, cast, be out of course, be fallen in decay, X exceedingly, fall(-ing down), be (re-)moved, be ready, shake, slide, slip. ​

[?]​

It has NOTHING to do with being IMMOVABLE in the sense that you are trying to FORCE it.

Some other uses of the SAME word:

Lev 25:35 (AKJV/PCE)​

(25:35) ¶ And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: [yea, though he be] a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee.

​

Deut 32:35 (AKJV/PCE)​

(32:35) To me [belongeth] vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in [due] time: for the day of their calamity [is] at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.

​

Ps 17:5 (AKJV/PCE)​

(17:5) Hold up my goings in thy paths, [that] my footsteps slip not.

​

Ps 38:16 (AKJV/PCE)​

(38:16) For I said, [Hear me], lest [otherwise] they should rejoice over me: when my foot slippeth, they magnify [themselves] against me.

​

Flatness in Rev 6:13? No.

Rev 6:13 (AKJV/PCE)​

(6:13) And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. ​

Just an analogy that works just fine with global earth.

It goes on and on and on and on and on.....

 

[Derf]

I am posting this 3 minute video to demonstrate how the sun allegedly drags the planets along while our solar system rockets through space at a speed of hundreds of millions of miles per hour. I have trouble accepting this model and I have yet to see any scriptures that support the heliocentric models.


https://youtu.be/0jHsq36_NTU - 3 minutes - click on link for full screen view

Cool CGI. I'm not sure what his point is. Sure, if the sun is traveling at the speed, then the planets have to be traveling at that speed, too, but not necessarily because of the sun's gravity. Once the system has been set in motion, including the planets, it will stay in motion unless acted upon by an external force. So if God put the solar system in motion, including the planets, it would likely continue, even while planets orbit the sun and moons orbit planets and all seem to spin.

The observation that planets and stars and galaxies all spin might be a indication that God was setting up a stable system. I fly satellites for a living, and we use spinning (rotational inertia and angular momentum) to stabilize our satellites, even when the satellites themselves aren't spinning! We use heavy spinning discs, called momentum wheels.

Maybe that's what is meant by "pillars".

 

[Nick M]

I decided to start a new thread for discussion of a Biblical flat

That doesn't exist so that is tough to do. You don't have to understand it, just believe it. Here is your answer, and the English translation of Hebrew, without adding or subtracting. Since Hebrew meaning was brought up.

Job 26:10

He drew a circular horizon on the face of the waters, At the boundary of light and darkness.

There should be no other questions or concerns. You just have to believe him. And with that, I will be checking back out.

 

[patrick jane]

That doesn't exist so that is tough to do. You don't have to understand it, just believe it. Here is your answer, and the English translation of Hebrew, without adding or subtracting. Since Hebrew meaning was brought up.

Job 26:10

He drew a circular horizon on the face of the waters, At the boundary of light and darkness.

There should be no other questions or concerns. You just have to believe him. And with that, I will be checking back out.

You posted the Hebrew translation from the nkjv? I don't ascribe to nkjv, it's subpar like the niv and many other so called Bibles. I trust King James Version exclusively and that's not how those verses are said. In my opinion the KJV 1611 is tops and better than any "new" version. Plus, I don't trust any of the photos from nasa. Thanks for stopping by Nick.

 

[patrick jane]

 

[patrick jane]

 

[patrick jane]

Psalm 148 KJV - Praise ye the Lord. Praise ye the Lord from the heavens: praise him in the heights.2 Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.
3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.
4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.
5 Let them praise the name of the Lord: for he commanded, and they were created.
6 He hath also stablished them for ever and ever: he hath made a decree which shall not pass.
7 Praise the Lord from the earth, ye dragons, and all deeps:
8 Fire, and hail; snow, and vapours; stormy wind fulfilling his word:
9 Mountains, and all hills; fruitful trees, and all cedars:
10 Beasts, and all cattle; creeping things, and flying fowl:
11 Kings of the earth, and all people; princes, and all judges of the earth:
12 Both young men, and maidens; old men, and children:
13 Let them praise the name of the Lord: for his name alone is excellent; his glory is above the earth and heaven.
14 He also exalteth the horn of his people, the praise of all his saints; even of the children of Israel, a people near unto him. Praise ye the Lord.

2 Peter 3 - KJV - This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 [FONT=&quot]Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]The term "firmament" and its identity has been one of the greatest puzzles concerning the Creation account, mostly because of its Hebrew definition:[/FONT][/FONT]
רָקִיעַ raqiya` raw-kee'-ah
from 7554; properly, an expanse, i.e. the firmament or (apparently) visible arch of the sky:—firmament.
רָקַע raqa` raw-kah'
a primitive root; to pound the earth (as a sign of passion); by analogy to expand (by hammering); by implication, to overlay (with thin sheets of metal):—beat, make broad, spread abroad (forth, over, out, into plates), stamp, stretch.
Most people interpret this to mean just the expanse of the sky (the atmosphere) or outer space, or both (which it is), but the full meaning goes well beyond that simplistic interpretation. The creation of the firmament is associated with the placement of some sort of structure.
Many modern scholars consign the term "firmament" as a relic of a pre-scientific culture and translate the Hebrew word raqia as a "dome" or "vault" in some modern Bibles. It is rendered as "firmament" in the KJV. The problem that puzzles people is the implication in the Hebrew language of the firmament being a firm, fixed structure (FIRMament). That structure and word choice can be explained in the context of the Ruin-Reconstruction interpretation of Genesis.
Young Earth Creationists have interpreted the "waters above the firmament" as a theoretical "water canopy" which once surrounded the Earth but no longer exists. They cite this as their source for the waters of Noah's flood. This is incorrect, and a concept that does not exactly hold water (pun intended) when closely examined within the literal framework of the Genesis narrative. (Genesis 1:14-16 KJV)This verse says that the Sun, Moon, and Stars are "in" the firmament. Therefore, applying the rules of grammar and logic, those waters that are "above the firmament" must be above the Sun, Moon and Stars. That means these waters are above the visible cosmos. For some this is a hard pill to swallow, but that is exactly what the Bible is saying."Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that [be] above the heavens."
(Psalms 148:4 KJV)
The Bible says that all wisdom and knowledge is found in the Lord Jesus Christ, the incarnate Word of God (see Colossians 2:3). The same holds true for the Holy Scriptures, the written Word of God. According to the Scriptures, there is a physical/spiritual structure to the universe. The Apostle Paul makes reference to the importance of this knowledge in the book of Ephesians where he wrote:"That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what [is] the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God."
(Ephesians 3:17-19 KJV)
Pay close attention to the structure of the grammar. Paul is speaking about two different things in this passage. The first is the structure of things, "the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;" and the second is, "to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge." The important key word here is the conjunction "And" which separates the two clauses. In other words, Paul is saying there are two things the believer can and should know. 1) The dimensions and structure of all things, which can be defined. 2) The love of Christ, which is beyond full comprehension by man. A corollary to the truth of this passage is found in this Old Testament proverb:"The heaven for height, and the earth for depth, and the heart of kings [is] unsearchable."
(Proverbs 25:3 KJV)
The firmament deals with the structure of the present heavens and Earth (Genesis 2:1), as opposed to the structure of the original heaven and Earth (Genesis 1:1). There is presently a three (3) heavens structure. In the old world of the original creation, there was a different configuration. Let's look back to Genesis 1:6 again and more closely examine that verse to determine that present structure and review something that we previously just touched on:"And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so."
(Gen 1:6-7 KJV)

The Firmament, Third Heaven, and Structure of Things Biblical

www.kjvbible.org/firmament.html

 

[patrick jane]

http://www.kjvbible.org/firmament.html

On the second day of the creation, the Lord God "divided" the waters (plural) of the great "deep" into two parts with a "firmament" in the midst. According to Genesis 1:10, both the waters that were upon the face of the Earth and the waters which He placed ABOVE the firmament He called "Seas":

"And God called the dry [land] Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that [it was] good."
(Gen 1:10 KJV)
​

This is important to understand. We know that the waters on the Earth are called "Seas" in the Bible, but there is also another "Sea" that is spoken of in the Scriptures, and that one is above the firmament. (Special note: Notice that the word "Sea" is capitalized at Genesis 1:10 in the KJV Bible). But, exactly where is "ABOVE" the firmament? During the seven days of the Genesis regeneration the Lord God defined Three Heavens. The first heaven is the Earth's atmosphere:

"And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl [that] may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven."
(Gen 1:20 KJV)
​

The second heaven is the vast expanse of the physical universe - outer space as we call it:

"And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:"
(Gen 1:14 KJV)
​

These two heavens constitute a continuum called the "firmament," and this firmament is collectively called "Heaven":

"And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day."
(Gen 1:8 KJV)
​

The Third Heaven is above this upper "Sea," and this higher sea is below the Throne of God:

"And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind."
(Revelation 4:6 KJV)
​

Therefore, this particular "Sea" above the firmament is above the known physical universe. Since the sun, moon and stars are "in" the firmament this Sea MUST be above them. This is difficult for the science of man to fathom, but it is a Scriptural fact on cosmology. It represents a firm and impassable barrier between the world of man (below) and the abode of God (above). Here are some additional verses in the Bible which refer to this particular Sea:

"Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that [be] above the heavens."
(Psalms 148:4 KJV)
​

This is the "sea" that John saw in his visions:

"And before the throne [there was] a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, [were] four beasts full of eyes before and behind."
(Rev 4:6 KJV)
​

This is a present "sea" of separation that will no longer exist when God destroys the old world and makes all things new after the 1,000-year Kingdom of Heaven and the final judgment that follows:

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."
(Revelation 21:1 KJV)
​

This "sea" is also spoken of in Exodus 20:11, the verse frequently quoted by Young Earth Creationists as a proof text to support their doctrine:

"For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."
(Exodus 20:11 KJV)
​

The reference to "the sea" in the above verse is a reference to the sea established above the firmament, NOT to any sea on the Earth's surface. Look at the English grammar of the verse. The heaven and Earth are set apart as separate and distinct entities and so is "the sea." That sea above the firmament was not made until the second day of Genesis. There is something even more important to notice about these waters above the firmament. Look again at the passage concerning the second day:

"And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day."
(Genesis 1:6-8 KJV)
​

Something is missing there. Do you remember what was said previously? This work on the second day is the ONLY day in the Genesis narrative where the Lord does NOT say it "was good." Therefore, when you consider the statement the Lord makes in Genesis 1:31 where He says that all that was made was "very good"...

"And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."
(Genesis 1:31 KJV)
​

...it must be considered so in the context of circumstances. The context is the overall work of Reconstruction from Ruin and the preparation of the Earth and a new world for Man. The term "very good" does not mean "perfect," and the sea of separation placed between the world above and the world below was not good, but necessary. It would not be until the work of the Lord Jesus Christ on the cross that a way would be made for crossing that barrier (the sea, or waters, above the firmament).

That particular "sea" is represented (in type) by this object that was a part of the design of Solomon's Temple known as the "Molten Sea." (See 1 Kings 7:23 and 2 Chronicles 4:2.) If you look at a diagram layout of the Temple you will see that this sea is between the Altar and the main part of the Temple where the Holy Place and Most Holy Place was.

Here in the design of the Temple can be found in schematic form the structure of all things, in type. The Altar where the sacrifices were made represents where the Lamb of God was sacrificed. It represents the world that is below (the Earth & the first and second heavens). The Molten Sea is between those two lower heavens and the "Third Heaven" where the true Temple of God is located.

The Third Heaven

This now gives us a better understanding of what the Apostle Paul was talking about in the book of 2 Corinthians 12:2, where he speaks of a place called the "third heaven":

"I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven."
(2 Cor. 12:2 KJV)
​

Although the "third heaven" is not directly mentioned in the Genesis narrative, the established structure of all things is defined in Genesis 1 and, when understood, allows us to comprehend exactly where and what Paul was talking about when he mentions the "third heaven" in his letter. It also gives the reader a better understanding of John's vision in Revelation 4. Again, when the Lord God divided the waters He created a boundary which presently exists between the two lower heavens (which constitute the firmament) and the third heaven (where the throne of God is). That boundary is that "Sea," and again that "sea" is above the two lower heavens of the firmament. It is also likened in places to crystal or smooth glass:

"And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above."
(Ezekiel 1:22 KJV)
​

The reason it appears like a smooth, crystal surface is because it is frozen:

"The waters are hid as [with] a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen."
(Job 38:30 KJV)
"And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness."
(Exodus 24:10 KJV)
​

It is also likened to glass:

"And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God."
(Revelation 15:2 KJV)
​

With this understanding of what exactly the Firmament is and the structure of all things that God made during the seven days, many things that were previously obscure suddenly take on real meaning and enrich the reader's understanding.
In summary, here is the structure of the physical world as it now exists from the face of the Earth upwards:

• The lower sea of physical waters (our seas and oceans)
• The first heaven (the atmosphere)
• The second heaven (outer space)
• The sea above outer space and below the third heaven (a sea of separation)
• And above it all, there is the Third Heaven.

"That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what [is] the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God."
(Ephesians 3:17-19 KJV)
​

The structure of the heavens is a recurring theme throughout the Bible. It is reinforced (in typology) throughout the Bible. For example, it is likened to the floors of a building, which we call "stories" and, sure enough, the same word is even used in the KJV Bible. It is used to describe the design of the heavens:

"[It is] he that buildeth his stories in the heaven, and hath founded his troop in the earth; he that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD [is] his name."
(Amos 9:6 KJV)
​

This pattern of three (3) "stories" is also found is some other important things in the Bible, an example being the description of the design of Noah's Ark:

"A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; [with] lower, second, and third [stories] shalt thou make it."
(Genesis 6:16 KJV)
​

It is also used to describe the construction of the Temple:

"The door posts, and the narrow windows, and the galleries round about on their three stories, over against the door, cieled with wood round about, and from the ground up to the windows, and the windows [were] covered;"
(Ezekiel 41:16 KJV)
​

In the construction of Moses' Tabernacle in the wilderness there were three (3) main parts: 1) The outer court, where the brazen altar of sacrifice was. 2) The Holy Place, where the candlestick, table of shewbread, and golden altar of incense were. 3) The Holy of Holies where the Ark of the Covenant was. Also note that between parts two and three was a curtain for a partition, which matches the "sea" above the firmament (in type) in the structure of the Three Heavens. It is no coincidence that all these Biblical things have a similar three-tiered structure. There is much spiritual insight to be gained in further study of those things:

• Three Heavens
• Three levels inside Noah's Ark
• Three floors in a section of the Temple
• Three sections to Moses' Tabernacle

Concerning the design of the Temple, keep in mind that Moses' tent Tabernacle and Solomon's Temple both had three (3) main parts:

• The outer court
• The holy place (where the table, lamp and incense alter was, outside the veil)
• The Most Holy Place (where the Ark was, behind the veil)

As you can see, this theme of structure based on threes is consistent throughout the Bible. Even the structure of the Earth has three (3) main divisions: the core, the mantle, and the crust.
Does the Universe really have a structure? When you go into outer space is there really any such thing as up and down, is there a top and bottom? Does the cosmos have a definite shape? We cannot observe such in our three-dimensional view of the universe, but is that all that is really out there? Not according to the Bible! In the words of Lord Himself there is a world above the one we live in and can observe:

"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."
(John 8:23 KJV)
​

Just because we cannot observe or understand something does not disprove its existence.
In the next section, we are going to discuss what the Holy Bible reveals about the Earth's ancient spiritual history and the events that shaped its natural history.

The Firmament, Third Heaven, and Structure of Things Biblical

 

[patrick jane]

Revelation 21 KJV - And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.