BATTLE TALK ~ BRX (rounds 1 thru 3)

[elected4ever]

So, God spoke the truth, and this evil spirit told a lie.

How in blue blazes does that prove your point?

The prophet told the truth as to what happened. The Lord gavie all Ahab's prophets a lieing spirit didn't He. Like I said you read the scripture with blinders on. You see what you wont to see. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets

 

[RightIdea]

No one is claiming anything, calm down.

You're not claiming anything? Could have fooled me... What are you posting in this thread for, if you're not claiming anything?

Great scenario. Unfortunately, there are baby rapes in the world. And in your story, you had a rocker doing drugs. I wonder who he bought them from, or how he got them? Anyways, that leads down another road.

Could God have saved you a different way other than predestining the death of His own Son? If Christ could not avoid suffering, why do you think God owes us that luxary? We can come up with great stories of how God could do this and that all day long. The fact still remains that evil exists, and God uses it to His advantage.

God doesn't know a person will actually commit that sin until the moment they really do it. Anytime up to that point, they could change their mind. So, God allows that freedom of choice, and then responds to it.

Amen, I agree God uses evil events to bring about good. AFTER the fact. He doesn't plan it; He responds to it.

 

[Z Man]

Oh, so now you agree God never actually needed any babies raped to bring about His will.... He just did it anyway.... for what???? Why???

RightIdea,

You have a horrible habit of putting words in people's mouths. Do you have the slightest intelligence what so ever to hold a simple, man-to-man debate without any mudslinging, or getting sidetracked, or shoving words in people's mouths because of your false assumptions? Any at all?

I would love to debate with you, and I think I've done my part in keeping my cool and being patient with you, but enough is enough. A person can only take so much of being mocked and having someone say things about you and what you believe that they have never admitted to believing in the first place.

 

[Vaquero45]

Well, of course I don't know the exact answer, but there are several thousands of possibilities in which God can fit a 'baby rape' into His perfect plan. For starters, the rapist is caught, sent to prison, and gang raped by other inmates there. In his guilt and shame, he comes to believe in the Gospel after hearing it for the first time at a prison ministry meeting. He may spread the news to other inmates, who may in turn become saved as well. They then tell others and so forth.

That's just one scenario. Maybe the parents, out of frustration and confusion, go seek guidance from a therapist who happens to be a Christian. The therapist sows the Word of God in their hearts and it comforts them. They in turn, become saved. That's another scenario. The possibilities are endless. For you to not trust God and His divine plan is disappointing, considering you are a Christian. He created everything, and He has the right to destroy us as He sees fit. That includes babies. And there's nothing you can do about it.

Wow. That's quite a god you have there. Excuse me while I puke....

OK, better now. If your god plans for a guy to rape a kid, it's your god's fault, not the rapists. And even better, the guy gets gang raped later, as part of the plan. Wow, tell your god I'm not interested. Please.

Jeff

 

[RightIdea]

The prophet told the truth as to what happened. The Lord gavie all Ahab's prophets a lieing spirit didn't He. Like I said you read the scripture with blinders on. You see what you wont to see. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets

We're talking about God lying. You said you believe God lies. And now, to prove your point, you provide a passage in which God tells the truth, and some wicked spirit lies.

Again I ask you, how in blue blazes does that prove your point?

RightIdea,

You have a horrible habit of putting words in people's mouths. Do you have the slightest intelligence what so ever to hold a simple, man-to-man debate without any mudslinging, or getting sidetracked, or shoving words in people's mouths because of your false assumptions? Any at all?

I would love to debate with you, and I think I've done my part in keeping my cool and being patient with you, but enough is enough. A person can only take so much of being mocked and having someone say things about you and what you believe that they have never admitted to believing in the first place.

It's not easy when the person I'm talking to claims things like God doesn't need for any babies to be raped to bring about His will, but He does ahead and foreordains it anyway.

I didn't put any words in your mouth. I took words out of your mouth, and showed them to you, and you found them almost as vile and disgusting as the rest of us do. That should tell you something. I concur with Poly -- shame on you, I rebuke your horrific claims about God predestining unnecessary monstrosities in this world simply because He has "the right" to do whatever He wants with us, including that little baby girls be gang raped by a half dozen men. You need to repent of this madness, and I pray you will reach a point where you allow yourself to be confronted with the horrifying truth of the things you've said, and how very far you've been willing to go to defend such things. You seem to worship a God that is viscious, petty and capricious. I have faith that you can turn from that and embrace the beautiful, life-affirming truth of God's love and righteousness and mercy!

 

[Rimi]

ZMan, if God foreordains a baby being raped, then the loss of hope of the parents is foreordained too. So, tell me again why God would do this?

 

[RightIdea]

Not for His glory... Zman already admitted that the act of infant gang rape brings no more glory to God than if it didn't happen.

So, very good question -- Why would God foreordain that, if not for His glory?

 

[GuySmiley]

Well, of course I don't know the exact answer, but there are several thousands of possibilities in which God can fit a 'baby rape' into His perfect plan.

Wow!! Its a wonder Lamerson doesn't pay you for professional advice.

 

[Z Man]

I didn't put any words in your mouth. I took words out of your mouth, and showed them to you, and you found them almost as vile and disgusting as the rest of us do. That should tell you something. I concur with Poly -- shame on you, I rebuke your horrific claims about God predestining unnecessary monstrosities in this world simply because He has "the right" to do whatever He wants with us, including that little baby girls be gang raped by a half dozen men. You need to repent of this madness, and I pray you will reach a point where you allow yourself to be confronted with the horrifying truth of the things you've said, and how very far you've been willing to go to defend such things. You seem to worship a God that is viscious, petty and capricious. I have faith that you can turn from that and embrace the beautiful, life-affirming truth of God's love and righteousness and mercy!

I believe in a God who is higher than man. Who is man before God? Nothing. He does as He pleases to anyone. You can't say to Him, 'God that's wrong. You can't do that'. Far be it from you to tell God what He can and cannot do.

 

[Z Man]

ZMan, if God foreordains a baby being raped, then the loss of hope of the parents is foreordained too. So, tell me again why God would do this?

Your stupidity is ordained by God. There's no hope. It's pointless to explain myself again.

 

[Rimi]

Z Man wrote:

How can you say that forordain and forknowledge = condone? Do you understand the definition to any of these words?

Because that's what it would mean, dummy.

Understand that I do not believe God condones/approves of evil.

If you're correct, yes He does.

I think it would be more like this:

"Shall you indeed accept good from Me, and shall you not accept adversity? All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; I do according to My will in the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth. No one can restrain My hand or say to Me, "What have You done?" Who has made man's mouth? Or who makes the mute, the deaf, the seeing, or the blind? Have not I, the Lord? I kill and make alive; I bring down to the grave and bring up. My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure. I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create evil; I, the Lord, do all these things."​

- (Job 2:10; Daniel 4:35; Exodus 4:11; 1 Samuel 2:6; Isaiah 45:7, 46:10)

And yet, not once is adultery mentioned. Or murder. Or the rape of women and babies.

The same hope Job had:

Job 42:1-6
Then Job answered the Lord and said: "I know that You can do everything, And that no purpose of Yours can be withheld from You. You asked, 'Who is this who hides counsel without knowledge?' Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know. Listen, please, and let me speak; You said, 'I will question you, and you shall answer Me.' "I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear, But now my eye sees You. Therefore I abhor myself, And repent in dust and ashes."

This just means that Job trusted God. Your point? You did have one, didn't you?

Lies. No one is accusing God of needing anything.

You are accusing God of knowing a baby would be raped, even ordaining it.

I understand that, and I agree. God doesn't need us at all.

He knew God did it:

Job 1:18-22
"Your sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother's house, and suddenly a great wind came from across F4 the wilderness and struck the four corners of the house, and it fell on the young people, and they are dead; and I alone have escaped to tell you!"

Then Job arose, tore his robe, and shaved his head; and he fell to the ground and worshiped. And he said: "Naked I came from my mother's womb, And naked shall I return there. The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; Blessed be the name of the Lord." In all this Job did not sin nor charge God with wrong.

NO! Job knew God ALLOWED it. And, again, Job's children were neither raped nor murdered.

And he understood why:

Job 42:1-6
Then Job answered the Lord and said: "I know that You can do everything, And that no purpose of Yours can be withheld from You. You asked, 'Who is this who hides counsel without knowledge?' Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know. Listen, please, and let me speak; You said, 'I will question you, and you shall answer Me.' "I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear, But now my eye sees You. Therefore I abhor myself, And repent in dust and ashes."

Again, this just shows that Job trusted God. Doesn't show that Job understood why things happend the way they did, only that "Tho He slay me, yet I will trust in Him" -- Job trusted God no matter what.

I know that. I never made it a point to prove that God needed us or evil. You're getting sidetracked here. Do try and stay focused please.

No, obviously you don't. You have said that God would foreordain a rape so that a rapist could get saved. ??? Clearly, you're stating that God would need evil to be able to be Holy.

You need to repent. You are in big trouble with this. Please seek God's will in this matter and be humble before him.

 

[elected4ever]

RightIdea

We're talking about God lying. You said you believe God lies. And now, to prove your point, you provide a passage in which God tells the truth, and some wicked spirit lies.

The wicked spirit as you call it was not a wicked spirit but a spirit and did God approve of the lie and manipulate Ahab to his death or not?

 

[RightIdea]

I believe in a God who is higher than man. Who is man before God? Nothing. He does as He pleases to anyone. You can't say to Him, 'God that's wrong. You can't do that'. Far be it from you to tell God what He can and cannot do.

Why not? You're here proclaiming what God can and cannot do.. I should stop? You first.

At least I worship a God that is perfectly righteous. I don't worship a liar or one who predestines baby girls to be unnecessarily gang raped for no discernable purpose, whatsoever.

 

[elected4ever]

Rightidea, I don't think you have a clue to what righteousness is.

 

[Rimi]

Your stupidity is ordained by God. There's no hope. It's pointless to explain myself again.

And you holding that God wants babies raped is ordained too.

You. Are. A. Fool.

 

[RightIdea]

RightIdea The wicked spirit as you call it was not a wicked spirit but a spirit and did God approve of the lie and manipulate Ahab to his death or not?

E4H, read the passage you quoted!

God used wickedness that already existed. This is a lying spirit! And it isn't wicked? Huh? Please explain how this is a lying spirit, but it is a righteous spirit?

No, God used evil that already was present, toward bringing about His will. Amen! He didn't plan it. He responded to it and used it at the time. Read the passage. God is asking questions!

20 *And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
21 *And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.
22 *And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

He asks questions, someone answers, and at that point, God decides to use this in His plan. Not before. Right then. And God doesn't lie. This is a lying spirit, and God will use the lying spirit who is already wicked.

 

[RightIdea]

Rightidea, I don't think you have a clue to what righteousness is.

You're telling us that righteousness includes continually lying to good people for your own ends....

And you're telling me I don't know what righteousness is?

 

[elected4ever]

You're telling us that righteousness includes continually lying to good people for your own ends....

And you're telling me I don't know what righteousness is?

We will address your questions as soon as you answer the one I ask and stop evading the issue.

 

[Z Man]

And yet, not once is adultery mentioned. Or murder. Or the rape of women and babies.

You don't think God ordains such things?

2 Samuel 12:11-12
"'Because of what you have done, I, the LORD, will cause your own household to rebel against you. I will give your wives to another man, and he will go to bed with them in public view. You did it secretly, but I will do this to you openly in the sight of all Israel.'"

Because of this curse, David's first son died of illness, his son Amnon raped his daughter Tamon, and Absalom killed Amnon. Later, Absalom sleeps with David's wives.

This just means that Job trusted God. Your point? You did have one, didn't you?

Job not only trusted God, but his hope was in the fact that God could do anything. Job's whole argument was that no one could withstand God's purposes. He also stated that he uttered words about things he did not understand, things too great and wonderful for him to know. This indicates that although Job may not understand, he had hope in knowing that God did.

In the same manner, parents may not understand why their baby was raped, but they can have hope in God that He does.

NO! Job knew God ALLOWED it. And, again, Job's children were neither raped nor murdered.

Job said God took away his kids. Not that He allowed it, but that God actually did it Himself. Job blamed God, and then the Bible says that in doing so, he did not sin with his lips.

And Job's children may not of been murdered or raped, but David's were. And God ordained that. (2 Sam. 12:11)

Again, this just shows that Job trusted God. Doesn't show that Job understood why things happend the way they did, only that "Tho He slay me, yet I will trust in Him" -- Job trusted God no matter what.

Job understood that God understood. That was his hope.

 

[RightIdea]

We will address your questions as soon as you answer the one I ask and stop evading the issue.

What do you claim I didn't answer? I've responded to everything you've spewed forth, as far as I'm aware of.