Battle Talk ~ Battle Royale VII
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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Jack,
Jack you have had plenty of factual, scientific and logical errors pointed out to you by many people.
Your refusal to see them, understand them or believe them does not detract from their existence.
No matter how many times you deny a fact it still remains a fact !
Jack you have had plenty of factual, scientific and logical errors pointed out to you by many people.
Your refusal to see them, understand them or believe them does not detract from their existence.
No matter how many times you deny a fact it still remains a fact !
You know I am getting real sick of the crappy.. “even if they see with their own eyes they would not believe” stuff !
You know in the modern day this doesn’t happen. Fair dinkum eyewitnesses do not deny real happenings if they actually see them. Generally if something is disbelieved it was because their were NO eyewitnesses and the event is a likely impossibility.
The simple fact is NO-ONE rose from the dead. It not possible.
Be honest with yourself at least. If you are “told” someone rose from the dead today would you believe them ? If you SAW someone rise from the dead would you think you had been tricked. You would demand massive amounts of proof etc… yet with Jesus.. you just say well some guys wrote it down so it must have happened ???
Why the suspension of disbelief ???
To Aussie Thinker:
Why the suspension of disbelief? you ask?
I will give you an answer but I do not know if it will satisfy you?
It is because the kind of faith we have, produces real results. It turned this cynical, cussing, drunkard, who almost left his wife and baby boy, into a hopeful, "praising God," sober, father of three.
But really that is just the small stuff in comparison to what real faith, really does. It protects me in this world to keep a salvation which I will see in its time. It is a faith that when it is constantly being tested by people and circumstances, every single day, will produce greater honor and glory to Jesus, when He is revealed to all, at the end of this age, because it {faith}was so tried, and so tested, as gold and silver, only it is much greater than either. It is the single most important possession that I have, because with it, I will receive the very salvation of my soul.
It is so mysterious, that even the angels in heaven long to look at it and try to understand fully the mystery of the Gospel, and the mystery of faith.
Please read 1 Peter 1 -12 if you truly want an answer to your question.
Also another verse puts it quite simply "Without faith it is impossible to please God."
That is why it says , neither shall they believe even if they should see one rise from the dead. It is "faith" that is required NOT more evidence. If you cannot believe a true and faithful witness, a person, or a book, in whom there is no guile, then you will not believe, when you see the real evidence yourself.
A true witness is all that God requires you to believe. God has given that to me in my broken and contrite spirit, and He has given it to me from humbled men of God, speaking His true Gospel message.
That is why I suspended disbelief, because I asked God to make me capable of believing in Him, and believe it or not that is just what He did for me and for multiplied millions of others.
Why the suspension of disbelief? you ask?
I will give you an answer but I do not know if it will satisfy you?
It is because the kind of faith we have, produces real results. It turned this cynical, cussing, drunkard, who almost left his wife and baby boy, into a hopeful, "praising God," sober, father of three.
But really that is just the small stuff in comparison to what real faith, really does. It protects me in this world to keep a salvation which I will see in its time. It is a faith that when it is constantly being tested by people and circumstances, every single day, will produce greater honor and glory to Jesus, when He is revealed to all, at the end of this age, because it {faith}was so tried, and so tested, as gold and silver, only it is much greater than either. It is the single most important possession that I have, because with it, I will receive the very salvation of my soul.
It is so mysterious, that even the angels in heaven long to look at it and try to understand fully the mystery of the Gospel, and the mystery of faith.
Please read 1 Peter 1 -12 if you truly want an answer to your question.
Also another verse puts it quite simply "Without faith it is impossible to please God."
That is why it says , neither shall they believe even if they should see one rise from the dead. It is "faith" that is required NOT more evidence. If you cannot believe a true and faithful witness, a person, or a book, in whom there is no guile, then you will not believe, when you see the real evidence yourself.
A true witness is all that God requires you to believe. God has given that to me in my broken and contrite spirit, and He has given it to me from humbled men of God, speaking His true Gospel message.
That is why I suspended disbelief, because I asked God to make me capable of believing in Him, and believe it or not that is just what He did for me and for multiplied millions of others.
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Jeremiah,
Firstly let me say something. If your faith and religious belief has allowed you to turn your life around then it is a fantastic thing. I have often argued FOR religion when I see it doing society (in general) good. I think Modern Christianity for example does create happy healthy societies so I am definitely not opposed to it as a concept.
But I still maintain regardless of its results or consequences belief in God is merely just that. The belief itself is what produces results.. their does not have to ba an actual God for your belief in it to produce results.
A simple example is someone who wants to kill someone else but avoids it because they think they will go to hell. They of course would not go to hell but thinking they would saved someone else’s life !
I will not dissect your comment point by point as I am quite happy for you that your “faith” helps you. As long as you realise my lack of faith produces all the same results as you so there is no direct correlation between faith and the existence of God !. I have a lovely wife and 3 fantastic children. I am happy healthy, help my fellow man and have a great social life. I lead as moral an existence as anyone I know.. etc etc.. Faith was not required.. just an empathy for fellow humans.
Firstly let me say something. If your faith and religious belief has allowed you to turn your life around then it is a fantastic thing. I have often argued FOR religion when I see it doing society (in general) good. I think Modern Christianity for example does create happy healthy societies so I am definitely not opposed to it as a concept.
But I still maintain regardless of its results or consequences belief in God is merely just that. The belief itself is what produces results.. their does not have to ba an actual God for your belief in it to produce results.
A simple example is someone who wants to kill someone else but avoids it because they think they will go to hell. They of course would not go to hell but thinking they would saved someone else’s life !
I will not dissect your comment point by point as I am quite happy for you that your “faith” helps you. As long as you realise my lack of faith produces all the same results as you so there is no direct correlation between faith and the existence of God !. I have a lovely wife and 3 fantastic children. I am happy healthy, help my fellow man and have a great social life. I lead as moral an existence as anyone I know.. etc etc.. Faith was not required.. just an empathy for fellow humans.
I have read hundreds of posts from unbelievers on this forum since this debate began, 2 months ago,who are sure that their science and their scientists have the proof to dispel the myths of God. Yet Zakath had to retire from the debate, and not even ten "good" men could be found to save the "10 th" post, even though there are dozens of experts in the peanut gallery. It is my prayer that you would all just for one week realize that your precious scientific "witnesses" are simply men, as evil and dishonest, yet also as "good" and as "comon" as your neighbor. If you could view them, or, as the case may be, yourselves, as most people view a lawyer or a politician you might have a better guauge for evaluating their "laws" and their "words."
Who do you picture in a clean white robe, a Scientist? or God?
How you honestly answered that question should speak to your heart. Think about it!
Who do you picture in a clean white robe, a Scientist? or God?
How you honestly answered that question should speak to your heart. Think about it!
To Aussie Thinker:
I thank you for not dissecting my post, since I opened myself up, it would be easy for you to do. I truly appreciate your restraint. I am happy for you that you have a wonderful family life. Your empathy for your fellow man is truly admirable. I can only say that for me it did not make me a better person. Perhaps I did not have as much as you have.
I will only say one thing in rebuttal, and that is it is not my faith that was good, or that turned my life around as you or some others might think . It was Jesus Christ. He gets all the glory and all my praise.
I thank you for not dissecting my post, since I opened myself up, it would be easy for you to do. I truly appreciate your restraint. I am happy for you that you have a wonderful family life. Your empathy for your fellow man is truly admirable. I can only say that for me it did not make me a better person. Perhaps I did not have as much as you have.
I will only say one thing in rebuttal, and that is it is not my faith that was good, or that turned my life around as you or some others might think . It was Jesus Christ. He gets all the glory and all my praise.
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Jeremiah
Your Bible writers are “just men” too Jeremiah.
Personally scientists get far more Kudos from me for what they say than do bronze age men who write myths and witness seeing God !
Most scientists are merely passing on what they have discovered and extrapolate possible reasons based on science for what may have happened. They generally have NO agenda.. unlike religious men whose agenda is to make you believe in God !
As far as continuing the debate goes. I have stated over and again how Bob’s debating style is extremely annoying. If he doesn’t like an answer he just claims it hasn’t happened. He has no real argument so it is almost impossible to argue against him anyway.
Your Bible writers are “just men” too Jeremiah.
Personally scientists get far more Kudos from me for what they say than do bronze age men who write myths and witness seeing God !
Most scientists are merely passing on what they have discovered and extrapolate possible reasons based on science for what may have happened. They generally have NO agenda.. unlike religious men whose agenda is to make you believe in God !
As far as continuing the debate goes. I have stated over and again how Bob’s debating style is extremely annoying. If he doesn’t like an answer he just claims it hasn’t happened. He has no real argument so it is almost impossible to argue against him anyway.
D the Atheist
New member
Debating is not science in action!
Debating is not science in action!
Debating is not science in action. Debating is people in action proffering opinions that are either backed up or not by science, all mixed up with playing on the prejudice’s of the audience to gain points by any method possible.
Debating is not the way to get at correctness of propositions; it is really a way to judge how adept is any given audience in overcoming being deceived.
Debating is a very poor substitute for proper scientific investigation and is not in the same street.
A good analogy is that for every fast gun-fighter, there is always a faster one. That does not make the slower or faster gun-fighter right – only faster - or dead
Debating is not science in action!
Debating is not science in action. Debating is people in action proffering opinions that are either backed up or not by science, all mixed up with playing on the prejudice’s of the audience to gain points by any method possible.
Debating is not the way to get at correctness of propositions; it is really a way to judge how adept is any given audience in overcoming being deceived.
Debating is a very poor substitute for proper scientific investigation and is not in the same street.
A good analogy is that for every fast gun-fighter, there is always a faster one. That does not make the slower or faster gun-fighter right – only faster - or dead
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attention
New member
Wadsworth:
"I do not believe that genesis has to be false in order for evolution to be true. I believe that enough facts are left out of Genesis to allow them to be compatible"
The genesis account of a creation of earth prior to the other stellar objects (including the sun), even when taken allegorically, is not compatible with a scientific model of the cosmos, since we know that earth was made of stuff that originate from stars.
"I do not believe that genesis has to be false in order for evolution to be true. I believe that enough facts are left out of Genesis to allow them to be compatible"
The genesis account of a creation of earth prior to the other stellar objects (including the sun), even when taken allegorically, is not compatible with a scientific model of the cosmos, since we know that earth was made of stuff that originate from stars.
I was probably getting muddled and entering a comment in the wrong place. I agree absolutely with you that Genesis is not compatible with a scientific model of the Universe; and it wasn't me who suggested it was. Genesis has to be false taken literally, without any strange "interpretations", -if evolution is true. Its one or the other, and I am firmly on the side of Evolution.
Heino
New member
It is always good to have the devil's advocate. However, I do not believe that historic events are "random" events. Every event in history is caused by an event preceeding it, by factors leading up to it. They are not random; they are just complex, much to the point that people find it difficult to track. However, if one tracks factors leading up to an event, one can never find anything random, in reality. All this is done in retrospect, of course, but I assure you that nothing in nature happens randomly. If it did, then, for me, God would become illogical and irrational.
As Einstein once said, "God does not play dice with the universe."
There is a reason for everything. Everything has a cause.
sixfivebeastman
New member
did anybody realize that the clock in the Battle Royale VII is ticking the wrong way? It says that Bob has an ever increasing amount of time to make his last post...when the deadline is really today. Just thought I'd make an observation, maybe Knight already knows about it and I missed something.
Heino
New member
What is wrong with this:
God created the universe. He created the laws of physics. He created the laws of chemistry and atomic particles. He created the earth. Then he created life, and he created a process called evolution to help life adapt to changes on the earth, of which there have been many. Wait a few hundred million years, until evolution has come up with beings like us, and God come down and starts talking to us, to teach us.
You can have it both ways, so they say. I believe that it is only very strict literal interpretations that have a problem.
But the bible says that God is in all things. He is everywhere. If that is true, then he can be guiding our evolution. Is that not like so-called intelligent design?
God is infinite, is he not? So God has been "growing" the universe, cultivating it, nurturing it, all along. I still see no reason why evolution cannot be part of his work.
I disagree. If god is everywhere, and he is in everything, then he is part of the fabric of the universe, and of all matter. It only makes sense that he is constantly helping things along. You have a plan for a garden, do you not prune it and pull weeds? God is a gardener, and we are the plants; his word and the church is the pruner. God is everywhere. How can he not be influencing the process of evolution? One might say that now, as we have evolved to humans, God is now helping our mind and spirit to evolve.
I think you assume too much, taking primitive writings as scientific fact. We do not know that this God created the laws of Physics or anything else. Has it not occurred to someone that we could just ask him, right now, this minute. After all the Creationists have all got hot-lines to him: Question: "do you or do you not exist, and did you or did you not create everything." I think we are entitled to know. Then we can all go home and stop arguing.
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