Atheists believe....?

[alwight]

a = not, without, (having) no

theos = God



Translation: "I can't say for sure that God doesn't exist, so I could be wrong but I still choose to believe and live my life as if He doesn't."

That's some cute and cowardly bet-hedging but it'll cut no slack with Him.

So you consider yourself brave to conclude in a specific God even if you can't claim to have any demonstrable knowledge?
IMO I simply withhold any such random conclusions, perhaps because I can face the unknown and you can't?lain:

 

[musterion]

So you consider yourself brave to conclude in a specific God even if you can't claim to have any demonstrable knowledge?
IMO I simply withhold any such random conclusions, perhaps because I can face the unknown and you can't?lain:

Go back and read my edited post.

 

[alwight]

So you consider yourself brave to conclude in a specific God even if you can't claim to have any demonstrable knowledge?
IMO I simply withhold any such random conclusions, perhaps because I can face the unknown and you can't?lain:

a = not, without, (having) no

theos = God



Translation: "I could be wrong but I still choose to believe God doesn't exist. That way I can live my life how I want, but if I ever find myself standing before Him in judgment I can just plead ignorance and say, 'Hey, I never categorically denied You exist; I just said I wasn't really sure! Besides, it's Your fault for not leaving me better evidence of your existence!' and that will get me off the hook."

That's some cute and cowardly bet-hedging but it'll cut no slack with Him.

Go back and read my edited post.

Please?

So you consider yourself brave to conclude in a specific God even if you can't claim to have any demonstrable knowledge?
IMO I simply withhold any such random conclusions, perhaps because I can face the unknown and you can't?lain:

Your erroneous presumptions about my ultimate motives are all very interesting but nevertheless completely spurious and without any basis in fact or reason. Why on earth would any atheist knowingly sell their eternity for this particular mortal coil and perhaps veil of tears?
"If it doesn't make sense then it probably isn't true" Judge Judy

 

[Lon]

Belief is one thing, knowledge is another.

Most often, they are exactly the same: I believe in St. Nicholas and glowing bunnies (google) because I know they exist. I believe 2+2=4. I believe a theoretic line goes forever, even though I've never seen one in my life. I believe the wind exists, even though I've never seen wind in my life. So belief expresses your and my apprehension of what does and doesn't exist. An atheist/skeptic actually has 'capacity' for fewer truths because he/she is dogmatic about disbelief, so much so, that they cut off avenues to what is possible and/or verifiable but takes longer to grasp. I'd even suggest a lack of patience. "No god" is a hasty conclusion. Jeremiah 29:12-14

 

[alwight]

Most often, they are exactly the same: I believe in St. Nicholas and glowing bunnies (google) because I know they exist. I believe 2+2=4. I believe a theoretic line goes forever, even though I've never seen one in my life. I believe the wind exists, even though I've never seen wind in my life. So belief expresses your and my apprehension of what does and doesn't exist. An atheist/skeptic actually has 'capacity' for fewer truths because he/she is dogmatic about disbelief, so much so, that they cut off avenues to what is possible and/or verifiable but takes longer to grasp. I'd even suggest a lack of patience. "No god" is a hasty conclusion. Jeremiah 29:12-14

Lon, 2+2=4 is an established provable fact, it is solid knowledge, no belief is required.
I believe that theoretical lines do not in actuality exist. The wind is also a testable fact and simply what happens when gas moves from A to B, again no belief is required. I don't claim to know that no gods exist but I don't see any reason to believe any do.

 

[musterion]

Please?

So you consider yourself brave to conclude in a specific God even if you can't claim to have any demonstrable knowledge?
IMO I simply withhold any such random conclusions, perhaps because I can face the unknown and you can't?lain:

Your erroneous presumptions about my ultimate motives are all very interesting but nevertheless completely spurious and without any basis in fact or reason. Why on earth would any atheist knowingly sell their eternity for this particular mortal coil and perhaps veil of tears?
"If it doesn't make sense then it probably isn't true" Judge Judy

Give us a straight, honest answer:

When you find yourself standing in judgment before Him, what would you offer as as your best excuse for your life of unbelief? (assuming He even gives you that opportunity to justify yourself, which I seriously doubt He's going to do for anyone). But if He does, what will you tell Him?

Dead serious question, answer in kind. Please.

 

[PureX]

I originally thought that 'atheism' referred to the belief that gods do not exist. As is often being argued, here. But eventually I came to realize that that definition does not take into account the matter of degrees of belief. And for most reasonable human beings, including myself, belief happens by degree, and not as an absolute. So thatI had to recognize that while the term 'atheism' referred to the 'no gods exist' proposition, and theism referred to the 'yes gods exist' proposition, 'agnosticism' referred to the degree to which we feel we can be certain of either proposition. And for many of us, that degree is not absolute. So that many of us are in fact both theist and agnostic, or atheist and agnostic, to varying degrees.

It is not reasonable for a human being to believe something without any doubt at all, simply because doing so ignores the possibility of error. And because we are not omniscient, we can always be in error regarding what we think we know. So I have had to concede the atheist's point when they reject the claim that atheism is an absolute belief that no gods exist. Although there are some atheists who believe this absolutely, just as there are some theists who believe God exists, absolutely; most atheists do not believe that no gods exist, absolutely.

 

[alwight]

Give us a straight, honest answer:

When you find yourself standing in judgment before Him, what would you offer as as your best excuse for your life of unbelief? (assuming He even gives you that opportunity to justify yourself, which I seriously doubt He's going to do for anyone). But if He does, what will you tell Him?

Dead serious question, answer in kind. Please.

If I found myself before a god who expected me to a priori believe regardless of my perception of the evidence and honest conclusions then I would not have to conclude that such god was a fit and proper judge of anything.
However I think that the probability of any real god even coming close to matching your dour literalistic version is so vanishingly remote that it can be disregarded.

 

[musterion]

If I found myself before a god who expected me to a priori believe regardless of my perception of the evidence and honest conclusions then I would not have to conclude that such god was a fit and proper judge of anything.

That's what you'd tell Him?

...that it can be disregarded.

Men have always been free to do so.

 

[Jose Fly]

Absolutely a belief in our Creator God. When we look at the world around us, we recognize His handiwork. We understand quite well that no man could have ever created such things as stars, oceans, or mountains. We marvel at the wonder we, ourselves, are.

Romans 1
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:​

But, when we reach a certain age, we get too smart for our own britches, and start imagining how else the things around us could have come into being. We even start thinking some big bang occurred or we climbed out of a slimey pond and became birds then apes then man. We became fools while professing ourselves to be wise.

Romans 1
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,​

And thus we see the scriptural roots of the anti-intellectualism that runs through fundamentalist Christianity.

Also, it's fascinating to see how some Christians think quoting scripture to non-Christians is persuasive, never understanding that "The Bible says..." is as meaningful to us as "The Book of Mormon says..." is to them.

 

[alwight]

That's what you'd tell Him?

Men have always been free to do so.

Face it, any real god up there is rather more likely to not be the hypothetical fundie version, I'll take my chances.

 

[musterion]

Face it, any real god up there is rather more likely to not be the hypothetical fundie version

Why? On what evidence are you convinced of that?

 

[alwight]

Why? On what evidence are you convinced of that?

Your fundie God is yours to demonstrate, I'm not advocating that any specific gods are at all likely, while unlike you I don't pretend to know.

 

[musterion]

Your fundie God is yours to demonstrate, I'm not advocating that any specific gods are at all likely, while unlike you I don't pretend to know.

So it's just your hope that He isn't watching you. Fair enough.

 

[alwight]

So it's just your hope that He isn't watching you. Fair enough.

You seem to think that I should tremble before your idea of God?
Sorry but your idea of a God holds no fears for me at all I can assure you.

 

[musterion]

You seem to think that I should tremble before your idea of God?
Sorry but your idea of a God holds no fears for me at all I can assure you.

Wait.

 

[alwight]

Wait.

Soon?

 

[musterion]

Soon?

Assuming you're at least 20, within 80-90 years at the statistical outside. Probably sooner.

You see creation but reject it's witness to Him. You've seen the evidence of design but reject it. You understand ex nihilo nihil fit but reject it. You have the witness of your own conscience but you reject it. You've heard of God's grace to you in Christ but reject Him. All of that leaves you utterly without excuse. But He gives you that choice. Just don't think you'll be able to claim you weren't warned or didn't know.

 

[alwight]

Assuming you're at least 20, within 80-90 years at the statistical outside. Probably sooner.

You see creation but reject it's witness to Him. You've seen the evidence of design but reject it. You understand ex nihilo nihil fit but reject it. You have the witness of your own conscience but you reject it. You've heard of God's grace to you but reject it. All of that leaves you utterly without excuse. But He gives you that choice. Just don't think you'll be able to claim you weren't warned or didn't know.

Unlike you I have much more interest in what actually is true derived from evidence and fact rather than your rock of ages, brimstone and fire blind faith adherence.
I would like to think that a real god would be able to understand that I did in fact try to use the brain that you think God gave me and thus perhaps give me more brownie points than those who mindlessly adhered literally to ancient scriptures.

Even if in the end it turns out I am wrong then it isn't because I somehow knew the truth in advance and wilfully chose to reject it.

Otoh if it comes down to your particular fundie God or nothing then I choose nothing, but I don't suppose you want to allow me even that, since that would be too easy, no I must endure the Lake of Fire eternally right?

 

[musterion]

I would like to think that a real god would be able to understand that I did in fact try to use the brain that you think God gave me

You misuse your mind to suppress the knowledge of Him and to deny Him, not to honestly seek Him. Because He has promised, and it is still true for you, that

Jeremiah 29:13

Matthew 7:7

Acts 17:27-28

2 Cor 5:20-21