Arminians' Dilemma

Samie

New member
It is accessed by faith and human faith does not happen at the cross. Paul spoke of those who make ship-wreck of their faith. How does a reprobate person make ship-wreck of their faith when they were never given any to begin with. More hyper-grace trash.
Faith is what energizes people to do what is pleasing in God's sight, for without faith it is impossible to please God (Heb 11:6); so, God dealt a measure of faith to every man (Rom 12:3), because He wants all to be saved (1 Tim 2:3, 4).

But only overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life (Rev 3:5).
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
You might want to give this more thought, considering the scriptural revelation of the unique hypostatic union of the two natures manifested in Jesus Christ, who was fully Man as well as fully God.

You telling me to give anything more thought is a laugh!

If God didn't die, we are all still in our sins. It was the fact that is was God doing the dying the made the death of sufficient value to pay the sin debt of anything more than a single other person. One perfect human would make a sufficient sacrifice for another human being but not enough to pay for even two other people never mind millions or billions and perhaps trillions of other people.

Besides, its just the gospel we're talking about.

God became a man.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

God (Jesus) died - first spiritually then physically.

Spiritual death (spiritual separation from God the Father):
Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”​

Physical Death (spiritual separation from the body):
Matthew 27:50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.​

God rose from the dead.
John 10:17 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

John 20: 8 Then the other disciple, who came to the tomb first, went in also; and he saw and believed. 9 For as yet they did not know the Scripture, that He must rise again from the dead.

26 And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!” 27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”

28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Acts 3:14 But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, 15 and killed the Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, of which we are witnesses.​


Believe it or die in your sin.

Resting in Him,
Clete
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
God cannot die, but the Christ who died on the Cross was God.
Contradict yourself much?

Jesus was the physical incarnation of the Creator (John 1). You cannot get to be any more God than that!

God the Father did not die nor did God the Holy Spirit but only God the Son who was with God in the beginning and was God (John 1).

God the Son died and was resurrected by the power of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8).

None of this is new. None of this is even controversial. If you aren't familiar with it its because those who have taught you Christian doctrine suck.

Nang is correct. See here a short explanation. Deuteronomy 32:40

Nang is not even a Christian! The god she worships doesn't simply allow children to be raped and murdered, He causes it to happen. A point she WILL NOT DENY.

She is a fraud and a liar. She is correct about nothing. A wolf in sheep's clothing and bound for Hell if she does not repent, which almost certainly will not happen because her mind is broken.


Resting in Him,
Clete
 

Samie

New member
The wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23). So if Adam died that same day he fell into sin, then, he would have paid for the sin he committed. But that's his eternal end. He would have paid for his sin God hates, but God would have eternally lost the sinner He loves.

So God implemented the plan He devised before the foundation of the world, before the beginning of time (2 Tim 1:8-10). He made a way whereby man might not only be able to pay for his sin committed but also at the same time have another shot at life eternal. The death of an animal that same day Adam sinned, as with all animal sacrifices of the old covenant, pointed forward to the death on the cross of the Lamb of God Who takes away the sin of the world. No wonder, Christ is called the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world!!!

On the cross, God through Christ created a One New Man: Christ the Head, humanity - Jews & Gentiles - the Body. Thus, He carried humanity's sin in His Body on the tree (1 Pet 2:24), because humanity was His Body on the cross (Eph 2:11-19). When the Head died, the Body died (2 Cor 5:14, 15; Heb 2:9); when the Head resurrected, the Body was resurrected TOGETHER with Him (Eph 2:4-6; Col 2:13), born again into a living hope of life eternal (1 Pet 1:3).

Being part of His Body, we are attached to Him Who is our Strength (Phil 4:13) for overcoming evil with good (Rom 12:21), and given faith (Rom 12:3) so we could please God (Heb 11:6), we have His Power to overcome. And overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life (Rev 3:5).
 

Aletheiophile

New member
It is accessed by faith and human faith does not happen at the cross. Paul spoke of those who make ship-wreck of their faith. How does a reprobate person make ship-wreck of their faith when they were never given any to begin with. More hyper-grace trash.


Seriously, that makes no sense.
 

Lon

Well-known member
Contradict yourself much?
Listen brother, at one time, I was exactly of the same mind as you. I am wide open to correction, but I think it is true that God cannot die.
Death is 'separation from God' and death is departure from a human body. There is a part of Jesus, then, that cannot die, but certainly He left His physical body. For me "die" was the focal point of grasping what people were saying.

Jesus was the physical incarnation of the Creator (John 1). You cannot get to be any more God than that!
Agree.

God the Father did not die nor did God the Holy Spirit but only God the Son who was with God in the beginning and was God (John 1).
In John 2:19, Jesus says: "Destroy this temple/body and in three days, I will raise it up again. God the Son did not cease to exist, though. John 4:24 reminds us that God is Spirit (not physical) but Christ was physical, as a human. However, He was also God as Spirit. I'm not horribly hung up on terminology and the friction it causes, but at one time I was, so I think I appreciate where you are coming from AND I think when terms are spelled out, especially "death" we'd likely be on the same page coming out the other side of the discussion.

God the Son died and was resurrected by the power of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8).
Yes. Jesus said He'd raise Himself and the Father is said to have raised Him also. That's an expression and understanding of why we are Trinitarian.

None of this is new. None of this is even controversial. If you aren't familiar with it its because those who have taught you Christian doctrine suck.
Not new. Some controversy "I think" because of how we define "death." Many think of it as cessation of existence. I agree God tasted death, but He overcame it.



Nang is not even a Christian! The god she worships doesn't simply allow children to be raped and murdered, He causes it to happen. A point she WILL NOT DENY.

She is a fraud and a liar. She is correct about nothing. A wolf in sheep's clothing and bound for Hell if she does not repent, which almost certainly will not happen because her mind is broken.


Resting in Him,
Clete
Probably a point worth mentioning and I do disagree with that. I simply wanted to address whether God died on the cross or not. Thanks for dialogue. -Lon
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Probably a point worth mentioning and I do disagree with that.

Whether God is the cause of rapes? I would hope you disagree . . and I have never advocated such.

I have testified my belief that God is the first cause of all things; qualified with the understanding that God is not the author of sin. God created man with secondary moral agency, to live according to His most holy standards (Law), and man's' failures to do so, in all their vile forms, is totally blamed on the sinful creature . . Not upon the Creator.

Clete hatefully wants to find fault with the Reformed beliefs, so he resorts to inventing claims and false witness against us, that are totally unfounded.

I categorically deny ever blaming God for being responsible for rapes or for any sin committed by any of His creatures, anytime, anywhere, or anyhow.

God created man.

Man sinned.

God reconciled undeserving sinners.

So be it.
 
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Lon

Well-known member
Whether God is the cause of rapes? I would hope you disagree . . and I have never advocated such.

I have testified my belief that God is the first cause of all things; qualified with the understanding that God is not the author of sin. God created man with secondary moral agency, to live according to His most holy standards (Law), and man's' failures to do so, in all their vile forms, is totally blamed on the sinful creature . . Not upon the Creator.

Clete hatefully wants to find fault with the Reformed beliefs, so he resorts to inventing claims and false witness against us, that are totally unfounded.

I categorically deny ever blaming God for being responsible for rapes or for any sin committed by any of His creatures, anytime, anywhere, or anyhow.

God created man.

Man sinned.

God reconciled undeserving sinners.

So be it.
I've always been under this impression from you. I simply was trying to avoid getting side-tracked from talking about the nature of Christ as God dying on the cross. I'm not sure what the other had to do with this thread.
 

Epoisses

New member

Seriously, that makes no sense.

You and your buddy PPS have lost all the credibility you never had. Go back to the seminary and worship your books. You're never known Christ and most likely never will. Ever learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

PPS and his years and years of study thought goat blood atoned for sin. He'll never live that down. LOL
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
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Oh lookie. My study bible has it too!

"Anarthrous constructions are most often intended to point out the quality of something."

Englishizers have NO idea what that means, and thus don't know what ANY nouns actually mean when translated from Greek to English.

Even the various translators have said this would happen. Erasmus insisted the recipients of his tranlsational work (much of the foundation for the Textus Receptus and KJV, and also a part of others' translational work who contributed to the TR) would so revere the finished result as a version that they would disdain that from which it came and those who translated it.

He called it. A huge thronging majority insist the English translations somehow dropped out of the sky on golden tablets or something. Spirit-filled and spirit-directed linguists and philologists are who God used to give us English translations. So to impugn the texts from which the English was translated is to deny scripture as a higher critic.

The KJV-only adherents are the saddest. Not because they only accept the KJV, but becaue they have such despite for the very original language documents and translators who gave them their KJV by the preservation of a sovereign God maintaining His Word.

Then they want to insist the grammatical components of the Greek text are irrelevant in English. There is nothing more insidiously naive and outright stupid than such an oblivious viewpoint as this toward the inspired text and its translations.

Arrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhh!!!!
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
You and your buddy PPS have lost all the credibility you never had. Go back to the seminary and worship your books. You're never known Christ and most likely never will. Ever learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

PPS and his years and years of study thought goat blood atoned for sin. He'll never live that down. LOL

Your mischaracterizations are not something I would ever need to live down. You understand neither the Old nor New Testament.
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
Listen brother, at one time, I was exactly of the same mind as you. I am wide open to correction, but I think it is true that God cannot die.
Death is 'separation from God' and death is departure from a human body. There is a part of Jesus, then, that cannot die, but certainly He left His physical body. For me "die" was the focal point of grasping what people were saying.

Agree.

In John 2:19, Jesus says: "Destroy this temple/body and in three days, I will raise it up again. God the Son did not cease to exist, though. John 4:24 reminds us that God is Spirit (not physical) but Christ was physical, as a human. However, He was also God as Spirit. I'm not horribly hung up on terminology and the friction it causes, but at one time I was, so I think I appreciate where you are coming from AND I think when terms are spelled out, especially "death" we'd likely be on the same page coming out the other side of the discussion.

Yes. Jesus said He'd raise Himself and the Father is said to have raised Him also. That's an expression and understanding of why we are Trinitarian.

Not new. Some controversy "I think" because of how we define "death." Many think of it as cessation of existence. I agree God tasted death, but He overcame it.



Probably a point worth mentioning and I do disagree with that. I simply wanted to address whether God died on the cross or not. Thanks for dialogue. -Lon


None of them know what anything means. Regarding this, they particularly don't know what thanatos (death) means in the least (especially articular and anarthrous).

And they have no idea of historical orthodox Christology or much of anything else except the concepts of their mind from a diluted English perspective.

Kindergarteners trying to teach others is always both maddening and sadly hilarious. One can't know what one doesn't know.

Love abounds in knowledge. (Philippians 1:9)
 
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PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
Whether God is the cause of rapes? I would hope you disagree . . and I have never advocated such.

I have testified my belief that God is the first cause of all things; qualified with the understanding that God is not the author of sin. God created man with secondary moral agency, to live according to His most holy standards (Law), and man's' failures to do so, in all their vile forms, is totally blamed on the sinful creature . . Not upon the Creator.

Clete hatefully wants to find fault with the Reformed beliefs, so he resorts to inventing claims and false witness against us, that are totally unfounded.

I categorically deny ever blaming God for being responsible for rapes or for any sin committed by any of His creatures, anytime, anywhere, or anyhow.

God created man.

Man sinned.

God reconciled undeserving sinners.

So be it.

The non-Reformed generally have no idea whatsoever what Reformed doctrine is in regards to salvation, etc. And it's because they have no idea what any words actually mean because they're all dumbed-down Englishizers who despise truth and anyone who has dared to find out what the Greek text is actually saying in English.

It doesn't help that there are extreme Calvinists who themselves don't understand Reformed doctrine. Sad.
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
Karl Barth's insidious influence on modernity is evident in those who have never even heard of him (like Sambo, here) but adhere to a false Universal Atonement that came from his pseudo-neo-liberalism bloviations (over 10 million words).
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
You and your buddy PPS have lost all the credibility you never had. Go back to the seminary and worship your books. You're never known Christ and most likely never will. Ever learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

PPS and his years and years of study thought goat blood atoned for sin. He'll never live that down. LOL

What a mindless moron.
 

Epoisses

New member
Your mischaracterizations are not something I would ever need to live down. You understand neither the Old nor New Testament.

Apparently the reformed Christians believe that the old covenant ceremonies expiated sin!!

This is why the whole world will be deceived at the end when the temple is rebuilt and the poor animals get sliced and diced to PITA's dismay.
 

Samie

New member
The supposedly learned and wise one, (pneumonia or whatever his forum name is, to borrow from Clete), could not even distinguish the difference of my view from Karl Barth's. He couldn't believe how a child could have hit the proverbial nail on its head with what he presents in this forum. Here's what he says:
Karl Barth's insidious influence on modernity is evident in those who have never even heard of him (like Sambo, here) but adhere to a false Universal Atonement that came from his pseudo-neo-liberalism bloviations (over 10 million words).
For me, universal atonement does not mean every one will ultimately make it to heaven, just because Christ died for everyone in Adam's race and made each one part of His Body on the cross. As I have repeatedly posted in a number of different threads, only overcomers will finally make it to the heavenly portals. And the learned and wise one cannot present any single valid Biblical basis for whatever objection he may have against my position.
 
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