Are you Going to Heaven?

[Timotheos]

Are we going to heaven?

I have a serious question. Where does the Bible say that anyone goes to heaven when they die? I can see where the Bible says that the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord, but I can't see where the Bible says that the reward for a Christian is to be a disembodied spirit in the sky.

 

[Ben Masada]

I don't see your point.

Are you sure! We were talking about Herod trying to arrest Jesus and you gave me the following as a reply:

Originally Posted by Omniskeptical View Post
Yeah, law engorgement, I mean enforcement, was so innocent then. Especially this Herod, who wasn't threatening him, but rather feeling kind and timid.

The fruit usually does not fall to far from the tree. This Herod's father was the one who ordered the killing of hundreds of children with the intent to have Jesus dead and you deny that he was not threatening Jesus but rather feeling kind and timid. God save us of his kindness!

 

[Ben Masada]

Are we going to heaven?

I have a serious question. Where does the Bible say that anyone goes to heaven when they die? I can see where the Bible says that the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord, but I can't see where the Bible says that the reward for a Christian is to be a disembodied spirit in the sky.

You must specify what Bible you are talking about because the Torah says that man was banned from the Garden of Eden to prevent him from eating of the tree of life and live forever. It means that man could not share with God the attribute of eternal life. (Gen. 3:22)

 

[heir]

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. (*James‬ *2‬:*24‬ KJV)

Galatians 1:8-9 KJV

 

[Omniskeptical]

Are you sure! We were talking about Herod trying to arrest Jesus and you gave me the following as a reply:

Morelike the servants of Herod threatening Jesus, to which Jesus reply was that he was doing miracles. What was the Herod to do? He was timid according to the account.

The fruit usually does not fall to far from the tree. This Herod's father was the one who ordered the killing of hundreds of children with the intent to have Jesus dead and you deny that he was not threatening Jesus but rather feeling kind and timid. God save us of his kindness!

More BS; it was the servants of Herod. Was Herod going to punish him for good deeds?

 

[Omniskeptical]

You must specify what Bible you are talking about because the Torah says that man was banned from the Garden of Eden to prevent him from eating of the tree of life and live forever. It means that man could not share with God the attribute of eternal life. (Gen. 3:22)

But mankind should. I don't see your point here also.

 

[Timotheos]

You must specify what Bible you are talking about because the Torah says that man was banned from the Garden of Eden to prevent him from eating of the tree of life and live forever. It means that man could not share with God the attribute of eternal life. (Gen. 3:22)

What Bible?

Where does 'the collection of books commonly called The Bible' say that dead christians live forever as ghosts in cloud houses?

 

[Ben Masada]

Morelike the servants of Herod threatening Jesus, to which Jesus reply was that he was doing miracles. What was the Herod to do? He was timid according to the account.

More BS; it was the servants of Herod. Was Herod going to punish him for good deeds?

Indeed, more BS I get back. The servants of Herod could not arrest any one without their having been commanded by Herod. And to punish Jesus for doing good deeds could not be more naïve a question as his
"good deeds" were not done to Herod but to the Jews.

 

[Ben Masada]

But mankind should. I don't see your point here also.

Perhaps because of your Christian preconceived notions. I was talking about a Jew aka Jesus from the Torah (Gen. 3:22) and you probably expect me to talk about him from the NT. I can't. He was a Jew whose Faith was Judaism, not Christian.

 

[Ben Masada]

What Bible?

Where does 'the collection of books commonly called The Bible' say that dead christians live forever as ghosts in cloud houses?

The Bible that speak about those things is called NT. Read it and you will see the huge amount of Greek Mythology.

 

[Timotheos]

The Bible that speak about those things is called NT. Read it and you will see the huge amount of Greek Mythology.

I have read the collection of books commonly called the New Testament in English and in Greek and I have not seen any claim in it that dead Christians live forever as ghosts in cloud mansions in the sky. If you know of any passages that say this in the NT, please show me where. I don't take anybody's word for anything.

 

[Ben Masada]

I have read the collection of books commonly called the New Testament in English and in Greek and I have not seen any claim in it that dead Christians live forever as ghosts in cloud mansions in the sky. If you know of any passages that say this in the NT, please show me where. I don't take anybody's word for anything.

Good! Don't take the word of any Christian affirming that dead Christians live forever even if it is down in the gospels. Yea, read about the last judgment in Mat. 25:31-46. Christians will be separated into two groups one represented as sheep on the right hand and the goats on the left hand. Those on the right side will be called into heaven for eternal life and those on the left for eternal punishment. This goes against the Torah that says no one can live forever. (Gen. 3:22) Also against resurrection which the Tanach claims will never happen. (Isa. 26:14; II Sam. 12:23; Job 10:21)

 

[Omniskeptical]

Good! Don't take the word of any Christian affirming that dead Christians live forever even if it is down in the gospels. Yea, read about the last judgment in Mat. 25:31-46. Christians will be separated into two groups one represented as sheep on the right hand and the goats on the left hand. Those on the right side will be called into heaven for eternal life and those on the left for eternal punishment. This goes against the Torah that says no one can live forever. (Gen. 3:22) Also against resurrection which the Tanach claims will never happen. (Isa. 26:14; II Sam. 12:23; Job 10:21)

So God was not preserving the mind of Abel after Cain had slain him. What a sense of justice your "god" hasn't!

 

[Timotheos]

Good! Don't take the word of any Christian affirming that dead Christians live forever even if it is down in the gospels. Yea, read about the last judgment in Mat. 25:31-46. Christians will be separated into two groups one represented as sheep on the right hand and the goats on the left hand. Those on the right side will be called into heaven for eternal life and those on the left for eternal punishment. This goes against the Torah that says no one can live forever. (Gen. 3:22) Also against resurrection which the Tanach claims will never happen. (Isa. 26:14; II Sam. 12:23; Job 10:21)

I believe Jesus Christ who said that the dead would be resurrected and those who follow him would inherit eternal life and those who reject him would not have eternal life. Genesis 3:22 does NOT say that no one can live forever. It actually says the opposite of that, if man would eat from the tree of life, he would live forever. As a Christian, I believe that the tree of life represents Jesus Christ, God Himself. He is the only way to have eternal life. But this eternal life is not being a dead angel ghost spirit in heaven. This eternal life is real life.

(Isa. 26:14; II Sam. 12:23; Job 10:21)

These verses are referring to the wicked who do NOT inherit eternal life. These verses do not deny that those who put their faith in God will inherit eternal life from the Eternally Living God.

 

[Ben Masada]

So God was not preserving the mind of Abel after Cain had slain him. What a sense of justice your "god" hasn't!

What do you mean by "sense of justice" the reward of heaven if you behave well in life? Omni, I am sorry to rain on your parade but, to behave well in exchange of a reward in heaven is no different from the reward promised to dogs to behave well or to perform funny. You know, those treats that dog owners give their dogs if they behave. Laws are obeyed to keep us out of trouble. God owes us nothing to show us His sense of justice.

 

[Ben Masada]

I believe Jesus Christ who said that the dead would be resurrected and those who follow him would inherit eternal life and those who reject him would not have eternal life. Genesis 3:22 does NOT say that no one can live forever. It actually says the opposite of that, if man would eat from the tree of life, he would live forever. As a Christian, I believe that the tree of life represents Jesus Christ, God Himself. He is the only way to have eternal life. But this eternal life is not being a dead angel ghost spirit in heaven. This eternal life is real life.

These verses are referring to the wicked who do NOT inherit eternal life. These verses do not deny that those who put their faith in God will inherit eternal life from the Eternally Living God.

The text in Genesis 3:22-24 explains why Adam and Eve had to be banished from the Garden of Eden; so that they would not eat of the tree of life and live forever. The point here is that the Devine attribute of eternal life could not be shared with man. Only God is eternal.

How could the tree of life represent Jesus if the man died? That's a contradiction in terms. There is no life eternal to inherit. But I understand you. Illusions are usually the last to go.

 

[Timotheos]

The text in Genesis 3:22-24 explains why Adam and Eve had to be banished from the Garden of Eden; so that they would not eat of the tree of life and live forever. The point here is that the Devine attribute of eternal life could not be shared with man. Only God is eternal.

How could the tree of life represent Jesus if the man died? That's a contradiction in terms. There is no life eternal to inherit. But I understand you. Illusions are usually the last to go.

I believe that Jesus Christ rose on the third day. He died, but he did not remain dead. He is alive. The man died, yet he is alive now.

He represents the tree of life because if we are in Christ, we will also have the gift of eternal life. Read Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The divine attribute of eternal life CAN be shared with man. Read John 1, "But to whoever received him, whoever believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God".

 

[Omniskeptical]

What do you mean by "sense of justice" the reward of heaven if you behave well in life? Omni, I am sorry to rain on your parade but, to behave well in exchange of a reward in heaven is no different from the reward promised to dogs to behave well or to perform funny. You know, those treats that dog owners give their dogs if they behave. Laws are obeyed to keep us out of trouble. God owes us nothing to show us His sense of justice.

I am talking about the time Abel loses on Cain. Your "god" (i.e. your version) is weak. It can't even wake the dead. pathetic.

 

[Ben Masada]

I believe that Jesus Christ rose on the third day. He died, but he did not remain dead. He is alive. The man died, yet he is alive now.

He represents the tree of life because if we are in Christ, we will also have the gift of eternal life. Read Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The divine attribute of eternal life CAN be shared with man. Read John 1, "But to whoever received him, whoever believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God".

All the above is from the gospel of Paul who was a Hellenist former Jew. Nothing at all can be verified in the only Scriptures that Jesus used to refer to as the Word of God. The NT, Jesus never even dreamed would ever rise.

Timotheos, Jesus was a Jewish man whose Faith was Judaism. Bodily resurrection is not an item in the Faith of Jesus. It was fabricated by Paul as he confessed it to his disciple Timothy. (2 Tim. 2:8) Prophet Isaiah says clearly that the dead will never rise again. (Isa. 26:14) King David said clearly that the dead will never return. (2 Sam. 12:23) We also have in Job 10:21 that from the grave one can never return. Throughout the Tanach there is nothing to endorse bodily resurrection.

 

[Ben Masada]

I am talking about the time Abel loses on Cain. Your "god" (i.e. your version) is weak. It can't even wake the dead. pathetic.

What do you mean by "Abel loses on Cain?" When Cain was planning to kill Abel, the Lord appeared to him in a dream and warned him not to carry out his plans because it was all up to his freewill. If he gave in to his intents, he would become a slave to an evil life. That's all. BTW, that was an allegory to indicate that God was sharing with man His attribute of freewill. It means that the event did not happen literally.