Ben Masada
New member
Jesus died a horrible death but he got over it. So it can't be all that bad.
How could Jesus have got over death with death? Besides, once dead, Logic dictates that one has lost all chances to get over anything.
Jesus died a horrible death but he got over it. So it can't be all that bad.
How could Jesus have got over death with death? Besides, once dead, Logic dictates that one has lost all chances to get over anything.
Where's your proof that the dead don't live again?
Unless you have heard his teachings first hand and can find the quotes that he used to say anything of what you are accusing then you are wrong. Can you be sure of this? What proof do you present of first hand experience? A third hand re harsh from a secular media source is not an acceptable verification. In fact he never told anyone not to go to the doctor! In fact he stated publicly that if anyone asked him if they should keep taking their pills his reply was YES! And told that PUBLICLY from HIS pulpit so all would know!Freeman's "shortcomings"?
Teaching lies that directly led to the deaths of a hundred of his followers, and himself?
"Shortcomings"?
I can't speak for anyone else but I haven't taught anyone in the name of Christ that He'd rather see their kids die needlessly before they're taken to a doctor. But you'd evidently be okay with it if I did, since that's exactly what Freeman did.
Your trolling sub-par.
Read Job 7:9; 10:21; II Sam. 12:23; Psalm 49:12; 88:11; Prov. 2:19... and many other quotes but I think these are enough to prove the point.
The wish to live again is an illusion and I am sorry if I had to rain on your parade but the Truth although some times painful cannot be masked.
In the context of nature the dead do not live again. However, God created nature and he has power over nature. Have you heard the story about Jonah? He died and yet lived again.
If a man dies, shall he live again? All the days of my hard service I will wait till my change comes. You shall call and I will answer You - You shall desire the work of Your hands. (Job 14:14-15)
Then the LORD heard the voice of Elijah and the soul of the child came back to him and he revived. And Elijah took the child and brought him down from the upper room into the house and gave him to his mother. And Elijah said, “See, your son lives!”
(1 Kings 17:22-23)
So there is Jonah, Job and a young boy. God can resurrect whomever he chooses.
In the context of nature the dead do not live again. However, God created nature and he has power over nature. Have you heard the story about Jonah? He died and yet lived again.
If a man dies, shall he live again? All the days of my hard service I will wait till my change comes. You shall call and I will answer You - You shall desire the work of Your hands. (Job 14:14-15)
Then the LORD heard the voice of Elijah and the soul of the child came back to him and he revived. And Elijah took the child and brought him down from the upper room into the house and gave him to his mother. And Elijah said, “See, your son lives!” (1 Kings 17:22-23)
So there is Jonah, Job and a young boy. God can resurrect whomever he chooses.
Sure it can, you just did it.
I have never heard of a Jonah who died and lived again.
I went down to the moorings of the mountains, the earth with its bars closed behind me forever, yet You have brought up my life from the pit, O LORD, my God. (Jonah 2:6)
The pit is a reference to a grave.
so are you going to heaven?Oh gosh! Jonah the dreamer! He never even left his bed. Jonah was a prophet and if there is a prophet "among you" to him I'll make My will known through a dream or vision. (Num. 12:6) Jonah had a dream about Nineveh to remind himself of the Jewish role to bring salvation to Mankind. Didn't Jesus say that salvation comes from the Jews? (John 4:22) So, Jonah hated the Assyrians for what they would do to destroy the Ten Tribes of Israel. So, in his dream, he tried to escape God's assignment of him to bring salvation to the Assyrians no matter what. Then Jonah went down to Joppa, took a ship to Tarshish and once aboard, he went down into the hold of the ship and lay there fast asleep. (Jonah 1:1-5) Then the crew woke him up and... you know the rest. Every thing happened on a double dream.
Pit here is a reference to how low Jonah fell down to reach rock bottom for trying to escape his Jewish responsibility as Immanuel. (Isa. 8:8)
so are you going to heaven?
I do not need to go to heaven as I have it already within myself. Isn't what Jesus said in Luke 17:21 that the kingdom of heaven is a peaceful state of mind we are supposed to let it grow within ourselves? There!
Oh? Since when did you accept Yeshua HaMashiach? You enjoy misinterpreting that verse. The previous verse expains it. “Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” Yeshua wasn't saying that the kingdom of God was inside them but rather among them, as also noted in Matthew 12:28. “But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.” In other words, Yeshua is the kingdom of God for us.
Jamie, I agree with you that God can do every thing and more but one: The thing you wish He did or should have done. The Lord has power over nature but not to carry it out to satisfy your demands.
I have never heard of a Jonah who died and lived again. Perhaps you are talking about your NT. The "I will wait till my change comes" of Job 14:14 is a reference to a change in his condition. Hence his question "If a man has died were he to live again..." This is a statement to the fact that a man who has died will never live again. You have rather confirmed my views about that text.
As I said above, God can all even resurrect whoever He chooses but not bodily resurrection which is what you have in mind as a result of Christian preconceived notions.
Well Jerusha, the previous verse (Luke 17:20) rather confirms verse 21. Jesus simply tried to explain that the kingdom of Heaven was not some thing to observe when it comes but to feel it within ourselves. Inside them or among them, it is not the point but to search oneself for it. The quote you bring from Mat. 12:28 only complicates things all together because it is not Jewish. Demon possessions is not according to the Faith of Jesus which was Judaism.
It seems to me, from what I have read, that this preconceived notion is not peculiar to Christians alone, but is also held by some within Judaism.
Jews have all the right in the world to interpret the Tanach without being charged with preconceived notions. That's our Bible. The non-Jew who reads the Tanach with the intent to graft Christianity into it is reading it with Christian preconceived notions.
The Sadducees did not hold to bodily resurrection. The Pharisees do, and some even hold to reincarnation as well.
Neither the Sadducees nor the Pharisees believed in bodily resurrection. Their belief of resurrection was according to Ezekiel 37:12. A return from the graves of exile and back to the Land of Israel. According to Isaiah 53:8,9 to be exiled for the Jews was the same as to be cut off from the land of the living and buried in the graves of the nations. This could never be literal.
To me, those who do not believe in the world to come, or the next life are atheists. I have not yet reconciled this belief in God and the simultaneous belief of total perishing at death.
In that case Moses was an atheist for having said that man cannot live forever. (Gen.3:22) King David was an atheist for having said that once dead one can never return. (II Sam. 12:23) Job was an atheist for having said that from the shadow of death he would never return. (Job 10:21) Solomon was an atheist for having said that at death even his or her memory is forgotten. (Eccl. 9:5,6) I think it is enough. If I continue, every one will be an atheist in the Tanach.
I do not hold the belief of resurrection just because of having been taught or because it is in the bible...these things have been proven to me through experience. Therefore, I do support the bible regarding these things totally... it too, through experiences, has been proven to me.
Please, show me where in the Bible that Jesus always referred to as the Word of God is written about bodily resurrection and you will have scored high with me. Experience!!! Have you experienced bodily resurrection? That'll be the day!
I'm amazed at some of the things you post. I guess you don't read the Midrash, Pesikta de-Rav Kahannah 1:4, Numbers Rabbah 19.8 or Leviticus Rabbah 24:3. Demon exorcism was most definitely of the faith of Yeshua. In Judaism, exorcism, performed in public or in the synagogue requires the presence of a minyan to make up a ritual quorum. Read Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews wherein he describes demon exorcism with burnt herbs and water immersion. Exactly what kind of Jew are you anyway?... I can see you not accepting Scripture from B'rit Chadashah but you deny Torah/Midrash and accounts of the sages in Talmud. Me thinks you are not what you say you are. Me thinks you are an aberration. Big surprise there!