Knight said:
beanie.... you write...Beanie I am sorry to mislead you, I am doing my best not to. But the situation or example is irrelevant at least in this debate.
The point is.... is the term "you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" an appropriate term to use in relation to evangelizing to your loved ones? Is the term an effective strategy guide? And is it a strategy or saying that Jesus would have used.
Jesus did use it. Remember the woman about to be stoned? He wasn't calling her a whore. He wasn't even carrying around a bag of stones looking for someone who deserved to be killed. He just happened to be passing by. And before he told her to sin no more, he said, "neither do I condemn you." Not exactly "vinegar" in my book.
Then again, sometimes JC was pretty harsh. I mean, that whole "vipers brood" thing, the man went off.
So, would he say the honey/vinegar thing? Maybe. I think he would especially apply it to some diciple who was berating someone into submitting to God. "Repent, dang it! REPENT, you stupid whore! Do you want to go to hell? Is that what you want?"
I think JC would say it in an EXAMPLE like that. In fact, I think he would say, "Look at yourself! You're angry. You're name calling. You're spitting poisin. You are making this about you, and it's about her and God. Now, go in the corner for a time out, and think about what you said."
Personally, in my experience, most people respond stronger to encouragement than they do to shame. Most people, when told that they are worth something, actually start to respect themselves.
If someone has a drinking problem, and has crashed their car, been fired from their job because they miss work so much, and their wife has left them, yet insists they don't have a problem, you may have to be a little more harsh. But ultimately, there is little you can do if they refuse to get help.
My brother-in-law used to be rather confrontational with me about my religious beliefs, and as a favor to my mother, would try and get me to believe what he believed. Because he wouldn't listen to me, I told him that I wouldn't listen to him. I would say something like "god is inside all of us." And he would say, "When I look inside, all I see is evil and darkness." And I would say, "That's really sad. I'm sorry that that is all you can see. It must make you feel very bad about yourself. " He would explain that the only good in him was God. I would say, "I thought you had God INSIDE your heart." He would get frustrated and then say something about tempting my eternal fate of doom in hell by my "new age" ideas. I would say, "and you risk joy in this life thinking that all that you are is evil, and all the good in you comes from some other source." And then it got heated. "Uncomfortable," you could say, to the point where I finally just stopped talking. The vinegar thing, in this case, wasn't working. It was obvious. And like a wind blowing harder and harder, trying to get a jacket off a man, I wrapped the jacket even tighter around my body.
My brother was a pastor. His views are open, because they were constantly challenged in school. He listens to me, and because he listens to me, I listen to him. At first I was reluctant to talk to him, but soon I learned that instead of prejudging me, he would listen and try to understand me and accept my ideas, and then give me something that challenged them. He is like the sun that comes out, and because the sun gently shines on the man, the man opens his jacket, and eventually takes it off.
Prostitutes, lepers, taxcollects, and the other rejects of soeciety approached Jesus who did not approach the religious leaders. What was it that Jesus did that was different?
