ARCHIVE: The Apostle Pauls affirms that a Christian can sin.

[Sozo]

If you say you have no sin (sinless perfection), you are a liar. John writes these things to believers so they will not sin and they will walk in the light as He is in the light. But IF (not when) we sin, we have an advocate, a redeemer, One we can confess to (say the same thing as God...He calls it sin, so should we), repent (cease sin instead of persisting in it like your perfectionism view tolerates as an illusion like Christian Science...sin is not real), renew obedience (like Jesus and Paul lived...in loving obedience to the Spirit and Word), and experience fresh forgiveness on that one point (which does not mean getting saved again).

That is blatant heresy. If God still killed people for telling falsehoods, you'd already be dead, and I'd be dancing on your grave.
:banana:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Sozo... if you cannot debate godrulz without calling him an "idiot" or a "pervert" then apparently you don't have the self control to debate these kinds of things. I save those types of comments for the homos and the pro-aborts. godrulz is making some good, challenging posts. I don't agree with everything he says but that doesn't make him a "pervert".

 

[Sozo]

I do?

I mean... I am not saying I have never called you a liar but can you give me an example? Can you show me one or two times I have accused you of lying? It's just something I can't remember doing.

I don't mean to butt in here, but everyone on this site inadvertantly accuses one another of lying from time to time by simply stating that what they are saying is not true. We insult one another with snide comments and mocking what the other believes. It's part of the game, I guess. Some people are more sensitive then others, and that is why they show a greated defense when they are offended. I know of where I speak.

 

[Sozo]

Sozo... if you cannot debate godrulz without calling him an "idiot" or a "pervert" then apparently you don't have the self control to debate these kinds of things. I save those types of comments for the homos and the pro-aborts. godrulz is making some good, challenging posts. I don't agree with everything he says but that doesn't make him a "pervert".

Not a pervert in the physical sense of the word. I am using it in the same vain as Paul does.

"Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ"

It's also an example you used, to attempt to prove your point...

"Reject a factious man after a first and second warning, knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned."

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I am using it in the same vain as Paul does.

Oh.. the irony. :doh:

 

[Sozo]

Oh.. the irony. :doh:

Would Paul, call a Christian a pervert, and a heretic, and tell the Body of Christ to have nothing to do with him, or would he have them restore a Christian in a spirit of gentleness?

Do you believe that the people, who came into Galatia, and that Paul said they should be accursed (damned to hell), and mutilate their (you know what), were also believers?

 

[Sozo]

Your embracement of godrulz makes you a traitor in the cause of Christ.

Shame on you Eric, for compromising what little, if any, faith you have, for someone who preaches another gospel.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Your embracement of godrulz makes you a traitor in the cause of Christ.

Shame on you Eric, for compromising what little, if any, faith you have, for someone who preaches another gospel.

:yawn:

 

[Poly]

I don't mean to butt in here, but everyone on this site inadvertantly accuses one another of lying from time to time by simply stating that what they are saying is not true.

A person can state what they believe is true and another person can disagree, believing it not to be true but that doesn't have to mean that somebody is lying.

I think what you stated above isn't true and I don't agree but that doesn't mean I think you're lying.

 

[godrulz]

You're an idiot.

No one has suggested your wild theories about Christianity.

I clearly stated, and the bible clearly teaches that maturity is total dependancy.

You are independent of God, and that is what makes you self-righteous.

Obeying Christ as Lord and Savior makes me independent from God like a godless atheist? :bang:

 

[godrulz]

Would Paul, call a Christian a pervert, and a heretic, and tell the Body of Christ to have nothing to do with him, or would he have them restore a Christian in a spirit of gentleness?

Do you believe that the people, who came into Galatia, and that Paul said they should be accursed (damned to hell), and mutilate their (you know what), were also believers?

There is a vast difference between the false gospel of the first century Judaizers or incipient Gnostics/Docetists, and Reformed, Wesleyan, Pentecostal, Keswik, Augustinian, Bob George, Finney, etc. nuanced views of sanctification (none of which deny justification by grace through faith alone...another straw man rant to your credit).

 

[mercyschild]

However, just so you don't say things in public to make yourself look foolish, you might want to rephrase your last comment about Christians being deep in sin.

Paul says that a Christian is free from sin. Being deep in something is a contradiction of being free from it. It's quite simple.

My response about being deep in sin, was a contrast between Christians and non-Christians; those who don't know Christ ARE deep in sin...they have no way of knowing that they are living that way, because they don't have the discernment God gives those who do know him.

 

[godrulz]

Your embracement of godrulz makes you a traitor in the cause of Christ.

Shame on you Eric, for compromising what little, if any, faith you have, for someone who preaches another gospel.

Chandler and Mustard Seed preach a false gospel and false Christ. I am within the Protestant, evangelical tradition, but refuse to embrace your heresy of sinless perfectionism as influenced by Bob George (your denial does not change the fact of the matter). You are welcome to your views, but I do not see how it necessitates you being a godless pervert who hates Christ (anymore than my nuanced views put me in that category).

 

[elected4ever]

Chandler and Mustard Seed preach a false gospel and false Christ. I am within the Protestant, evangelical tradition, but refuse to embrace your heresy of sinless perfectionism as influenced by Bob George (your denial does not change the fact of the matter). You are welcome to your views, but I do not see how it necessitates you being a godless pervert who hates Christ (anymore than my nuanced views put me in that category).

Show me one place where i have taught sinless perfectionism ? I am getting tired of your false allegations. Ether put up or shut up.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Would Paul, call a Christian a pervert, and a heretic, and tell the Body of Christ to have nothing to do with him,

He sure would. 1 Corinthians 5

or would he have them restore a Christian in a spirit of gentleness?

He would do that too. 2 Corinthians 2

Do you believe that the people, who came into Galatia, and that Paul said they should be accursed (damned to hell), and mutilate their (you know what), were also believers?

Paul calls them false brethren.

Galatians 2
1Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.
2And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.
3But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
4And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
5To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.​

Here is where Paul says that they should be cut off.

Galatians 5
10I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.
11And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.
12I would they were even cut off which trouble you.​

Since Paul is a Bible scholar, he may be using the phrase "cut off" in the Biblical manner:

Mic 5:9 Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off.​

Paul continues talking to the believers:

Galatians 5
13For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
15But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.​

Paul says that we believers have been called unto liberty, which is what you are saying when you say a believer cannot sin.
But Paul cautions the believers to make sure that they do not abuse that liberty for "an occasion to the flesh." Many of us believe that the "occasion to the flesh" is giving in to sin, and that it can affect any believer.

Galatians 6
1Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.​

 

[godrulz]

Show me one place where i have taught sinless perfectionism ? I am getting tired of your false allegations. Ether put up or shut up.

There are a variety of sinless perfectionism views. Just because yours is not identical to Wesleyan eradication, does not mean that what you say does not fit under the umbrella of these views.

You and sozo say that a Christian CANNOT sin (sinless). This contrasts with a non-sinless view that says a Christian should not or will not sin. You guys also talk about how we are perfect in Christ in an absolute sense (a Christian who cannot sin is perfect). This contrasts with a view that affirms that Christ alone is God and sinless and perfect in an absolute sense. Paul said that he was not perfect yet (Phil. 3).

You define terms and concepts in a way that suits yourself. Just because you do not use 'sinless perfectionism' in the context of your own beliefs does not mean that this is not the logical conclusion or appropriate definition (again, there are a spectrum of views that fit the label).

Even saying the spirit cannot sin, but the flesh sins, falls under this category. You may have modified your view recently since Knight convinced you that we cannot dissect a person into parts without losing the whole.

 

[elected4ever]

There are a variety of sinless perfectionism views. Just because yours is not identical to Wesleyan eradication, does not mean that what you say does not fit under the umbrella of these views.

You and sozo say that a Christian CANNOT sin (sinless). This contrasts with a non-sinless view that says a Christian should not or will not sin. You guys also talk about how we are perfect in Christ in an absolute sense (a Christian who cannot sin is perfect). This contrasts with a view that affirms that Christ alone is God and sinless and perfect in an absolute sense. Paul said that he was not perfect yet (Phil. 3).

You define terms and concepts in a way that suits yourself. Just because you do not use 'sinless perfectionism' in the context of your own beliefs does not mean that this is not the logical conclusion or appropriate definition (again, there are a spectrum of views that fit the label).

Even saying the spirit cannot sin, but the flesh sins, falls under this category. You may have modified your view recently since Knight convinced you that we cannot dissect a person into parts without losing the whole.

I have not modified anything. I have not said anything that Jesus, Peter, Paul and john did not teach. You are the one in disbelief. I know who I am in Christ. You don't. You just hope you are. You just hope you have reached a standard of conduct acceptable to Christ. That has been your testimony from the word go.

 

[Newman]

Will y'all give it a rest?

 

[godrulz]

I have not modified anything. I have not said anything that Jesus, Peter, Paul and john did not teach. You are the one in disbelief. I know who I am in Christ. You don't. You just hope you are. You just hope you have reached a standard of conduct acceptable to Christ. That has been your testimony from the word go.

Straw man...see Ephesians 2:8-10 for the relationship between faith and works.

 

[Lighthouse]

My identity is not in the flesh, for how can the living identify with the dead?