ARCHIVE: The Apostle Pauls affirms that a Christian can sin.
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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elected4ever
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Then Paul is a liar if they are. As lone as you clam sin for yourself you are unsaved Knight. Only the dead can sin. Your flesh was never saved, Your flesh will never be saved, Knight. as as lone as you believe that you sin you are not of the Spirit. Even the sins of a headhunter in Borneo has his sins forgiven in Christ. No one on planet earth has any more sin because Jesus paid for all sin for all men for all time.Knight said:I think your question has been answered about 18 times (at least).
I am in the Spirit. But I am a human being. My name is Knight (well not really) and this person named Knight is still dealing with the flesh. Sometimes I do fleshy things (the Bible call these things sin - Sozo calls them "misbehaving", e4e call them "stupid acts).
Therefore, while I am identified with Christ I still sin because of the flesh. Thankfully that sin has already been covered (Rom 4:7-8).
Your argument flies in the face of: the Bible, common sense, common vernacular, communication, the definition of sin and probably a few other things.
It is not the forgiveness of sins that saves. It is the giving of life from the dead. That my friend is salvation. The only way a person gets saved is to receive life, not having sins forgiven. There is no more sin only belief and unbelief. If you are in unbelief then you will be judged for each act committed by you at the Great White Throne of Judgement where all the dead shall be judged by Christ Himself. The living are those who have received life today. The living cannot sin. The living do not sin. The living cannot sin. They are in Christ because Christ is in them. The life that the living have is Christ's life and now you propose to tell me that Christ sins. You are not identifying with Christ. You are identifying with your self. Your argument flies in the face of Jesus and the Apostles.
When God grieves (because of us) our relationship is affected (unless of course you would like to redefine the words relationship or affected).Sozo said:
God doesn't like to grieve. God would rather He not grieve. God would rather we not misbehave. When we do misbehave God grieves. The difference between God grieving and not grieving is the difference in our relationship with Him at any given moment.
When God is grieving (because of me) our relationship contains the element of grief. When God is not grieving (because of me) our relationship DOES NOT contain the element of grief.
Take it up with Paul.elected4ever said:
1 Corinthians 8:12 But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.
I guess Paul wasn't saved either.
People who assert I am not saved....
- SentientSynth
- Docrob57
- e4e
- Sozo
Who am I leaving out?
- SentientSynth
- Docrob57
- e4e
- Sozo
Who am I leaving out?
Poly
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Sozo said:
Sozo, don't you grieve when your kids do wrong?
This would be normal for any parent and when it happens, the relationship between the parent and child is effected. By no means does it mean you no longer love the child or choose to disown him but the relationship, for a moment, isn't what you want it to be which is for him not to do wrong but rather to do what is pleasing to you out of his own love and desire to do so.
Sozo
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Knight said:
When I find the time (If I'm still here), I will provide for you a commentary on Ephesians chapter 4, so that you will see that the context of the passage is dealing with false teachers who were dividing the Body and causing strife among believers, which therefore grieves the Holy Spirit.
godrulz said:
The Normal Christian Life by Watchman Nee is worth reading. Everything else he ever wrote is worthless from beginning to end. And I mean that explicitly; it isn't an exageration or a figure of speech. Everything he wrote will do spiritual harm aside from this one work, which oddly enough, is brilliant and well worth reading.
So... you ARE saying you do not have the ability to grieve God?Sozo said:
Why do posts like this that slam the coffin shut on the whole issue get universally ignored?Knight said:Take it up with Paul.
1 Corinthians 8:12 But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.I guess Paul wasn't saved either.
:think:
Because their investment in the argument is too large. Their pride causes them to continue on instead of conceding as they should. They are sinning. Errrr..... misbehaving.Clete said:
Sozo
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If I was to teach another gospel, I would.Knight said:
We have already agreed and affirmed that we can do things in the body that are contary to what God wants us to do. No problem there. Paul gives a great deal of instruction to avoid doing those things that, under the law, God judges as sin, and that those who do them will NOT inherit the kingdom of God.
However, they do not affect who I am in Christ, or my relationship/fellowship with God in any way. Grieving God does not effect your releationship/fellowship with god, except perhaps in your own mind, because you have judged His.
In God's mind, I am holy, righteous, blameless, complete, and perfect, because I am in Christ. I can be no less.
Uh Sozo????Sozo said:
Your response in the other thread was....
Sozo said:
Sozo
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Knight said:Because their investment in the argument is too large. Their pride causes them to continue on instead of conceding as they should. They are sinning. Errrr..... misbehaving.
No, Knight, you are completely mistaken. It has nothing to do with any "investment", but solely in the fact that to believe otherwise is to destroy the work of Christ in every aspect.
To believe that a Christian sins, is to completely undermine the gospel messge. It is to ignore Christ's shed blood, and to reject Christ's resuurection. It is to remove the Holy Spirit from the life of the one who has faith in God.
"For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain terrifying expectation of judgment, and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?"
This is what is being done by those who continue in sin.
And this of course is because you think Ephesians 4:30 means something other than what it says?Sozo said:
Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
I agree.
Our standing in God is secure! But it's another thing entirely to assert that God doesn't grieve when our flesh does "stupid acts".
Again, you clearly restrict the meaning, definition and usage of the word sin.Sozo said:
You are using sin as a noun only and not a verb.
Paul didn't do this, why do you? :think:
Sozo
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Okay, but I did not ignore it. I just have not answered the one verse in the entire bible that suggests that Christians sin.Knight said:
When the rest of the bible states that we do not, it sometimes takes more time to address the one verse that is contrary without just posting all the ones that you ignore.
elected4ever
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Do you mean that if we act like we are dead and do the thing the dead do then we are somehow less than a child of God? Let me ask you, If your child got into the wrong crowd and participated with them in some unlawful behavior and was caught, would you disown that child or correct that child? Would you not love that child and correct your child? Would you be hurt emotionally by what the child did? Yes. Would you correct that child out of anger or love? Did the child miss the mark of your expectations? Yes. Is this missing the mark what you are calling sin? Your relationship between you and your child did not change did it. Just how the love in the relationship is expressed changes.Knight said:
Hebrews 12:4 ¶Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.