ARCHIVE: Open Theism part 3

Pam Baldwin

Pam Baldwin

New member
SaulToPaul said:
gospel of Christ - hidden in the scriptures-revealed directly by Christ to Paul
gospel of grace of God - hidden in God-revealed directly by Christ to Paul

I went through all of this with the Hilstonator. :cool:
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So you are saying that Paul got two gospels?

What did the Hilstonator assert? Same as the.....Baldwinator :DK:
One gospel to Paul- hid in God before the world?
 
themuzicman

themuzicman

Well-known member
(Please take KJVO and MAD discussions to another thread.)

I cannot believe that I break for a few days to get ready for exams, and all the proof texts that are taking out of context and otherwise not exegeted properly come out to play.

Will Calvinists ever take the Word of God seriously?

Muz
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
themuzicman said:
(Please take KJVO and MAD discussions to another thread.)

I cannot believe that I break for a few days to get ready for exams, and all the proof texts that are taking out of context and otherwise not exegeted properly come out to play.

Will Calvinists ever take the Word of God seriously?

Muz
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Ok, themoderatorman.
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
themuzicman said:
Will Calvinists ever take the Word of God seriously?
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That's what I say, and will open theists ever take it seriously also?

Anyway, can an OV'er explain what "an observer of times" is in this passage:

(Deut 18:10) There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch
 
themuzicman

themuzicman

Well-known member
tetelestai said:
That's what I say, and will open theists ever take it seriously also?

Anyway, can an OV'er explain what "an observer of times" is in this passage:

(Deut 18:10) There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch
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Taking a more modern (and accurate) translation:

Deut 18:10There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer​

Muz
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
themuzicman said:
Taking a more modern (and accurate) translation:

Deut 18:10There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer​

Muz
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Ok, can you then tell me what "interprets omens" means?
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Pam Baldwin said:
Really?? I'm disappointed that you think that. Why do you even discuss with [them] then (me--the "calvinist"-- included)?
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Hi Pam:

It was sort of a facetious comment directed to themuizicman.

I find the irony very funny when an open theist suggests that a Calvinist does not take the word of God serious. Sort of like when Hitler (a socialist) would criticize Stalin (a communist) and vice versa.

As I have said many times, I find Calvinism and open theism as two very flawed extremes. However, I see Calvinists and open theists as brothers and sisters in Christ that agree on the “essentials”.

Sometimes facetious posts help because at times it is too serious.
 
themuzicman

themuzicman

Well-known member
tetelestai said:
Ok, can you then tell me what "interprets omens" means?
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I don't have my Hebrew bible, so I can't look at the original, and I don't have a good commentary here, either.

What it means, in context, is that the kinds of people that tell fortunes and engage in the spiritual/psychic practices of the religions around them.

Muz
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
themuzicman said:
I don't have my Hebrew bible, so I can't look at the original, and I don't have a good commentary here, either.

What it means, in context, is that the kinds of people that tell fortunes and engage in the spiritual/psychic practices of the religions around them.

Muz
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An Omen is a phenomenon that is believed to foretell the future, often signifying change, whether good or bad.

An observer of times is someone who can see into the future.

A physic is someone who knows the future.

A fortune teller is someone who can tell of the future.

So, how does all of this fit with the open view?
 
themuzicman

themuzicman

Well-known member
It fits just fine, since these are all false tellers of the future. They may guess well, or be vague enough that any future will be "fulfilled."

Either way, I'm not putting my faith in them.

Are you?

Muz
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
themuzicman said:
It fits just fine, since these are all false tellers of the future. They may guess well, or be vague enough that any future will be "fulfilled."

Either way, I'm not putting my faith in them.

Are you?

Muz
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According to the Open View, God cannot tell the future either.

According to the Open View, prophecy from the Bible is vague enough that it can be "fulfilled"

Do you see what you guys are doing here Muz?
 
themuzicman

themuzicman

Well-known member
tetelestai said:
According to the Open View, God cannot tell the future either.

According to the Open View, prophecy from the Bible is vague enough that it can be "fulfilled"

Do you see what you guys are doing here Muz?
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No, I see what you are doing, and it's simply invalid.

Do these psychics have the ability to know all present knowledge, including the state of every person's heart? No.

Do these psychics have the ability to know all possible courses of the future, and how their actions will impact that course of the future? No.

Do these psychics know anything more than the average human? No. They're pretenders.

Your attempt to compare God to a psychic only exposes your inability to seriously engage in this debate.

Muz
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
themuzicman said:
Your attempt to compare God to a psychic only exposes your inability to seriously engage in this debate.
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I’m not the one comparing God to a phychic; it’s you and the open theists.

You are the one who says God cannot know the future, and you are the one who says phychics cannot know the future. (I agree with the phychic part)

You are the one who says that God only vaguely knows the future, and you are the one who just said that phychics only vaguely know the future. (I agree with the phychic part)

I believe God knows the future, and I believe God knows every detail of the future.

I elevate God from the phychics, and you equate God to the phychics.

And, according to Ezk 28:12, Satan knows the past and the present, which is another comparison open theists such as you do to God.

Do these psychics know anything more than the average human? No. They're pretenders.
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Not if Satan is their source.
 
themuzicman

themuzicman

Well-known member
tetelestai said:
I’m not the one comparing God to a phychic; it’s you and the open theists.

You are the one who says God cannot know the future, and you are the one who says phychics cannot know the future. (I agree with the phychic part)

You are the one who says that God only vaguely knows the future, and you are the one who just said that phychics only vaguely know the future. (I agree with the phychic part)

I believe God knows the future, and I believe God knows every detail of the future.

I elevate God from the phychics, and you equate God to the phychics.
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Your disingenuous nature in this matter is evident.

Muz
 
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