ARCHIVE: Open Theism part 3

[Nang]

This just shows how disconected you really are from the heart of God. The intire Bible story is about the broken heart of God!

"And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it, Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes" (Luke 19, 41-42).
Luke 13:34
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
Jesus is a person!

Jesus wept over His children, but is wrathful towards the religionists who were not willing to receive His prophets who were sent proclaiming His grace.

The entire Bible is about Jesus Christ, and His Mediation for those the Father gave Him to save from divine judgment and wrath. So He said in Luke 24:44.

You are making things up, just like godrulz.

Shame on you both . . .

Nang

 

[Nang]

God has a tender heart. He is personal. Study the Hebrew for 'grieved' and other verses.

Calvinism is too Platonic and makes God mechanistic, not Living and relational. Would you like a lesson on love?

The source of Godly love (and personal tenderness) is revealed in the Father's love for His Son.

Those sinners outside of Jesus Christ will receive God's personal wrath and hellfire.

The elect of God, accepted by the Father in the Beloved, personally know the love of God through the presence of the indwelling Holy Spirit of Christ.

It is your make-believe stories that tell people that Calvinists do not know God personally and do not know His love. That is just simply untrue, and shame on you for perpetuating such a lie.

You go on and on, day after day, spouting things that you know nothing about. A few of us are here to correct you, for the benefit of those you attempt to deceive.

Nang

 

[penofareadywriter]

Jesus wept over His children, but is wrathful towards the religionists who were not willing to receive His prophets who were sent proclaiming His grace.

The entire Bible is about Jesus Christ, and His Mediation for those the Father gave Him to save from divine judgment and wrath. So He said in Luke 24:44.

You are making things up, just like godrulz.

Shame on you both . . .

Nang

Yep...more proof.... Calvinism is such a destructive theology....

 

[bybee]

This I believe

This I believe

You are too kind. Do you consider yourself in the Open Theism camp? (I trust this is the biblical view)

Yes. I am an "Open-Theist". I have been an Open-Theist since before I knew that was what I must call myself! Truly though, I like to be identified as a follower of Jesus of Nazareth. peace, bybee

 

[godrulz]

This just shows how disconected you really are from the heart of God. The intire Bible story is about the broken heart of God!

"And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it, Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes" (Luke 19, 41-42).
Luke 13:34
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
Jesus is a person!

Jesus is God with a face, reflecting the Father heart of God (Jn. 14:9). Love is not a matter of Christ's humanity alone, but the loving, tender heart of God (which is not a mere anthropomorphism, unless you allow Platonic ideas to jade your doctrine of God).

Jn. 3:16

The Holy Spirit is also personal/God and can be grieved/quenched. He does not have a literal 4 chamber heart.

 

[godrulz]

Jesus wept over His children, but is wrathful towards the religionists who were not willing to receive His prophets who were sent proclaiming His grace.

The entire Bible is about Jesus Christ, and His Mediation for those the Father gave Him to save from divine judgment and wrath. So He said in Luke 24:44.

You are making things up, just like godrulz.

Shame on you both . . .

Nang

The love and mercy of God is just as true as His holiness, wrath, justice, severity.

Both/and, not either/or (and not at the same instant relating to specific things/individuals).

 

[godrulz]

Yes. I am an "Open-Theist". I have been an Open-Theist since before I knew that was what I must call myself! Truly though, I like to be identified as a follower of Jesus of Nazareth. peace, bybee

Very exciting...who are some authors that confirmed your thinking?

Dare I ask, but are you also MAD/Plot (I will not hold it against you)?

 

[Nang]

The love and mercy of God is just as true as His holiness, wrath, justice, severity.

Agreed.

Both/and, not either/or (and not at the same instant relating to specific things/individuals).

The chosen, spiritual children of God are loved in Christ. Those outside of Christ are objects of God's anger and wrath.

Both things are true and bring glory to God.

 

[godrulz]

Agreed.



The chosen, spiritual children of God are loved in Christ. Those outside of Christ are objects of God's anger and wrath.

Both things are true and bring glory to God.

Rom. 5:8
Jn. 3:16

(don't read elect where it is not)

To stir the pot, I think you elevate a wrong hyper-sovereignty view above His other explicit attributes and character qualities.:ha:

 

[themuzicman]

The chosen, spiritual children of God are loved in Christ. Those outside of Christ are objects of God's anger and wrath.

Both things are true and bring glory to God.

You just contradicted yourself. You said that God loved those in Jerusalem that would not come to Him, yet they did not (in general) become the chosen, spiritual children of God.

Muz

 

[Nang]

You just contradicted yourself. You said that God loved those in Jerusalem that would not come to Him, yet they did not (in general) become the chosen, spiritual children of God.

Muz

No I didn't. I said Jesus wept over His spiritual children (which included His prophets sent prior);who were restricted by the governing powers of Jerusalem, and whom the religionists attempted to prevent from proclaiming God's truth. The ruling religionists went so far as to kill the prophets God sent in their attempt to suppress Godly truths.

I am certain that every elect soul in Jerusalem, for whom Christ wept, and for whom He died, was eventually saved . . .despite the wickedness and hatred the religionists exhibited towards them, as well as the prophets, their gospel message, and the very coming of their Savior, Jesus Christ.

Jesus wept over Lazarus, too, because his friend suffered death . . .but then Jesus resurrected him to new life. (John 11:1-44)

Jesus exhibition of weeping displays love for His people and hatred for sin, but it is not evidence He was powerless to overrule the damages of sin and unbelief imposed upon His people in this life.

Nang

 

[themuzicman]

No I didn't. I said Jesus wept over His spiritual children (which included His prophets sent prior); that were restricted under the governing powers of Jerusalem, whom the religionists attempted to prevented from hearing the truth. The ruling religionists went so far as to kill the prophets God sent in their attempt to suppress Godly truths.

I am certain that every elect soul in Jerusalem, for whom Christ wept, and for whom He died, was eventually saved . . .despite the wickedness and hatred the religionists exhibited towards them, as well as the prophets, their gospel message, and the very coming of their Savior, Jesus Christ.

Umm.. you need to do more study. First, Christ didn't pick out a very small minority of those in Jerusalem, but wept over the entire city, and wept because He had called to them many times, including during his human lifetime, and they werte not willing. Shortly after this, Christ predicts the destruction of Jerusalem. Clearly Jesus is weeping over those who will be lost because they have rejected Him.

Jesus wept over Lazarus, too, because his friend suffered death . . .but then Jesus resurrected him to new life. (John 11:1-44)

Jesus wept because Lazarus was a close friend who had died.

Jesus exhibition of weeping displays love for His people and hatred for sin, but it is not evidence He was powerless to overrule the damages of sin and unbelief imposed upon His people in this life.

It is also evidence of his love for those who were not going to be saved.

Muz

 

[Nang]

It is also evidence of his love for those who were not going to be saved.

Muz

That is only your most recent "universalistic" opinion, but God does not love or weep over those He has prepared for destruction. (Romans 9:22)

 

[godrulz]

That is only your most recent "universalistic" opinion, but God does not love or weep over those He has prepared for destruction. (Romans 9:22)

Bah bah :madmad:

Rom. 5:8

Jn. 3:16

http://www.gospeltruth.net/1855OE/550620_gods_no_pleasure.htm

(Ezekiel)

God's wrath flows from His love and holiness. It is not vindictive/retributive, but just. He does not need to be appeased with animal blood to make Him loving. He desires to extend mercy, not wrath.

The issues are governmental, not personal (feel the anointing and experience the illumination).

Me thinks the California sun is baking your brain. Say hi to Arnie for me and kick sand in the face of the girlie men.

 

[Nang]

God's wrath flows from His love and holiness.

No it doesn't.

God does not love sin, and sin is the opposite of holiness.

God's wrath flows from just anger against all that opposes His love and holiness.

He does not need to be appeased with animal blood to make Him loving.

The establishment of sacrificing animal blood happened in the garden of Eden, to predict what it would take to appease God's anger over Adam's sin.

The innocent blood of animals that has been spilt ever since, was a type and pointed to the innocent blood of Jesus Christ, that would successfully act as propitiation for sin.

He desires to extend mercy, not wrath.

Only to those who are in Christ by faith.

Say hi to Arnie for me and kick sand in the face of the girlie men.

I don't like Arnold . . .he is a fake. . .

Nang

 

[bybee]

You may ask

You may ask

Very exciting...who are some authors that confirmed your thinking?

Dare I ask, but are you also MAD/Plot (I will not hold it against you)?

You may not agree with me but I have been very influenced by George Macdonald and C.S. Lewis, mainly because of their love.
While my children have often accused me of being mad as a hatter I am not "MAD" in the theological sense. I'm not sure that I really understand the mid-acts dispensationalism(is that it?) which is much touted on TOL. It appears that it's adherents are pretty much wrapped up in Pauls words. I have thought that it has to do with The Abrahamic Covenant, pre-circumsion, proves that the Covenant includes all people. So, no, I'm not "MAD". Just GLAD to walk in the footsteps of Christ 'til I get home. peace,bybee

 

[themuzicman]

That is only your most recent "universalistic" opinion, but God does not love or weep over those He has prepared for destruction. (Romans 9:22)

LOL... you just keep on contradicting yourself. Jerusalem, all those who continued to embrace the Old Covenant, whom Jesus wept overare in the vessel prepared for destruction. Jesus weeps over them because they have had their last sign before the sign of Jonah, heard the gospel of the kingdom for the last time before they crucify Him, and they have rejected Him. Christ weeps for their loss.

Muz

 

[godrulz]

LOL... you just keep on contradicting yourself. Jerusalem, all those who continued to embrace the Old Covenant, whom Jesus wept overare in the vessel prepared for destruction. Jesus weeps over them because they have had their last sign before the sign of Jonah, heard the gospel of the kingdom for the last time before they crucify Him, and they have rejected Him. Christ weeps for their loss.

Muz

Matthew 23:37
Lk. 7:30

Contrary to Calvinism, God IS WILLING, but man is not. Monergism/decretalism/hyper-sovereignty is not the biblical model.

 

[Nang]

LOL... you just keep on contradicting yourself. Jerusalem, all those who continued to embrace the Old Covenant, whom Jesus wept overare in the vessel prepared for destruction. Jesus weeps over them because they have had their last sign before the sign of Jonah, heard the gospel of the kingdom for the last time before they crucify Him, and they have rejected Him. Christ weeps for their loss.

Muz

The sins of Jerusalem, the murder of the prophets sent by God, and the suppression of truth by the religious rulers of that city during His incarnation, vindicates Godly reprobation of wicked men. Jesus wept over the spiritual harm and oppression the religious rulers thought to inflict upon His elect who dwelt within the midst of wicked Jerusalem

However, I will concede God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked (Ezekiel 33:11). God is not sadistic. But God does not regret, feel remorse, repent of His intentions, or weep over those souls prepared for destruction. (Romans 9:22; Proverbs 16:4)

Nang

 

[Nang]

Matthew 23:37
Lk. 7:30

Contrary to Calvinism, God IS WILLING, but man is not. Monergism/decretalism/hyper-sovereignty is not the biblical model.

If you are going to represent and critique Calvinism in this regard, you must make it clear exactly what God is WILLING to happen, and do so according to revelation of such as found in Holy Scripture.

These kinds of generalities can be spiritually harmful, and lead to all kinds of unsound theology, if not verified and explained.

Nang