"Is time a thing?" Yes. Why? Its a noun.
"Then God said, 'Let time be a noun,' and it was a noun. God saw that it was good for time to be a noun." --Genesis, chapter Infinity, verse 2.
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Sure. Time's a noun... nouns include all things... God created all things... God created time.
So, if your
Noun thesis is solid, then there's not a lot I can say.
So, I'm following your premise so far. Let's get to your leap...
If God knows the future with 100% certainty, then He either created it directly (as in being outside of time) or He created it indirectly (as a sure result from His first cause). Those are the only two options because He is the Creator God.
Objection #1: Speculative. We don't know the mechanism by which He foreknows. Your's is but a 'possibility.' Your leap: you are making a possibility the only option.
Actually I stated two options and implied a third. But I grant that you're right about something. They are speculative insofar as any logical statement we as creatures can make is speculative, dependent upon our knowledge of the matter. So for the sake of acknowledging that speculation I will restate the options:
1st -- God knows the future exhaustively because He created the universe (time and all) all at once. He, being the Creator, is "outside" of His creation and has full "view" of it at all times. He directly crafted each event (choice) that happens.
2nd -- God knows the future exhaustively because He is the perfect first cause of the universe. With His initial event of creation He foreknew precisely what chain of events (choices) would result, from that moment forward, through all of time.
3rd -- God allows us to choose freely (create events) and does not exhaustively foreknow the future.
Nth -- God is a mystery. We have no idea how He knows what He knows.
Now, maybe the Nth option is the responsible one to opt for. It is the default option. It's always there. If God had done nothing at all to make Himself known to us, we would have nothing but the Nth option to deal with. But we both agree that He has made Himself known in a variety of ways-- not completely, but significantly.
My attempt at listing off options is based on things that
I believe God has made known to us. Most people who debate the issue of God and time also have things that they
believe God has made known to us, whether they're Calvinists or OVers. Maybe you do too.
So are you objecting to my options because you hold to the Nth option yourself-- you really don't know? If so, why do you hold the belief in exhaustive foreknowledge without knowing how?
If you don't like those two options then you can alter the conditions of the statement in two ways. First, maybe He's not the Creator. If that's so, then certainly, He could be outside of time and viewing as much of the future as He wants without having a hand in it. But if that's the case then someone else must be the Creator God.
Objection #2: I don't entertain that He isn't Creator, but more to the point, you've stated this awkwardly and are making conclusions without the connections that link them.
God is both without and within time parameters. He is unconstained by, yet relational to our existence.
I'm glad you don't entertain that He isn't the Creator. He most certainly is! But the part of your quote that I put in bold is a conclusion. It would be helpful to get at the premises behind this conclusion. Can you help me with that?
Second, maybe he doesn't know the future with 100% certainty. If that's so, then certainly, He must not be the one determining the entire future.
Objection #3: Hasty. This is the OV premise and it assumes both.
Assumes both what? Are you invoking the Nth option here again?
In short, IF He is the Creator AND He knows our choices with 100% certainty THEN He created (caused) those choices by one means or another.
Agreed, but not to the implied end which you'd take it. He made every firing synapse in your brain, He knows how it works implicitly. You cannot make a choice without Him knowing about it. We, as we 'choose' to learn, make the connections. God made the parameters of our choice. That the synapses are connected is 1) knowable 2) our doing.
Let me see if I get what you're saying. God creates everything about the
situation in which any choice is made. The choice itself is dependent upon the situation, so God, knowing both the parameters of the situation and the workings of our individual minds, knows the result of our choices. Does that come close?
But for real, the book has got John Piper in it! He and Boyd have had it out I don't know how many times, and Piper has got not only some serious anger and hostility toward the OV and those that believe in it, but also is notorious in MISREPRESENTING the OV. If I am wrong on this, please prove me wrong. He never TRULY address the OV on its own ground(sure he might do some quoting here and there but nothing that does the OV Justice). I have heard him enough on this subject to know his mind on it.
