clete, Do you believe that every person has the right to act in accordance with who they are and not who they are not? That is the free will I believe in.
Whatever. Who asked you what sort of free will you believe in? I didn't, nor do I care. Such a thing is meaningless in the first place and has nothing to do with the topic of free will as any other sane person understands it.
The problem we are having is not one of free will but in defining what and who we are.
Here we go again. I can't sin because my testimony is that I am perfect. Brilliant!
If we believe that we are subject to the flesh and its fallen nature after we have been saved we will act in accordance with that belief and we wind up defeated Christians, If we believe we have become a new creation in Christ then we will act in accordance with that belief and exhibit the qualities of the life within.
This is quite true but you fail to understand is that whether a Christian believes that they are subject to the flesh or not, the fact is that they are not regardless of how they act as a result of their unbelief.
A point you wouldn't lose sight of so easily if you would get off this definition of sin kick that you seem obsessed about.
Stop worrying about the words you use and just get the message across! Which is more important the words or the meaning behind the words?
My main objection is that Christianity today teaches that we remain subject to the flesh and act in accordance with its deadness that is passed instead of life that we have now received.
Even so, this has nothing whatsoever to do with Open Theism or free will.
Where is our liberty in life if we remain subject to the deadness of of our former self?
We cannot remain subject to our former self. We have been crucified in Him whether we acknowledge it or not. The key that people need to learn and that you need to focus on teaching them is that it makes no difference what they do, they are identified in Christ and are therefore perfect because He is perfect and His perfection has been imputed to them by faith in Him. It is true that once they understand this truth that their walk will become much more fruitful in this life but even if that never happens, it doesn't change who they are in Christ.
If we act in the liberty of life the flesh will indeed sin because it is inevitable that we will offend theses weak ones for whom Christ died. We are then what is called a carnal Christian who is one who is double minded and unstable in our ways. We cannot have life and still be subject death.
Stop contradicting yourself! Now we can sin! :bang:
How in the world do you ever expect for anyone to take you seriously when you cannot even be consistent with your own standards? The idea that Christians can sin or be carnal should never ever come out of you mouth unless and until you drop this silly rampage you are on concerning everyone else's "misuse" of the term. No one is going to care one bit about anything you have to say if you cannot keep from being a hypocrite when you say it.
Now if you want to discuss this aspect of the Gospel of Grace further, please start another thread or find one where it will be on topic. Thanks!
Resting in Him,
Clete
