lee_merrill said:
But this statement is by Scripture itself, not by a person.
Job 42:11 They comforted and consoled him over all the trouble the Lord had brought upon him, and each one gave him a piece of silver and a gold ring.
That is not true, though, God does not contradict anyone who says he did it.
No, you see, "you did not speak of me what was right" refers to the prior speeches of Job's friends, so then "as Job did" refers to the prior speeches of Job--and this comes from the context.
But what did Job say? "I despise myself" (not my views) Job is saying he is not worthy, that he is not righteous before God, even though he was a righteous man:
Job 9:15 Though I were innocent, I could not answer him; I could only plead with my Judge for mercy.
And this he did.
Also, Job said: "I know that you can do all things; no plan of yours can be thwarted" (Job 42:2).
This would imply that God had a plan here! Thus this is the hand of God, as everyone has been saying all along, and Job said God's plan is never thwarted--this would have in view what happened to Job--and God said "That's right."
God's good purpose was accomplished, with Job, as with Paul, as with Jesus, in Job's trials which refined him and showed he did not serve God as a mercenary, in Paul's thorn which kept him humble, as in the cross which brought salvation.
Yet unwitting blasphemy is a sin, Paul had to be forgiven for this.
God also said the Sabeans did some of this, so then who did took away Job's oxen and donkeys? Satan, or the Sabeans?
Blessings,
Lee
P.S. And you have not yet made clear to me how God had no agency in what happened to Job, when he took down the hedge around him.
You will not understand my answer for anything until you see things in context. At least you seem to be trying to see more context, but you are confusing it still because you "WANT" to see it your way, you do, just like Clete said.
I have an advantage here because I once was like you, believing as you do. It was not my bias that changed me over to the OV, but a recognition that the way my theology caused me to view God as the author of Evil. I rejected it after careful consideration.
So to say it is "MY" interruption of scripture is wrong. I once had your view and know the path that changed me. I once tired to show you how you were blaspheming In hopes it would break your heart, as mine was, once you saw that you were verbally degrading Our Lord.
I showed you scripture, where Job was told he was doing the same thing, yet you do not wish to see how you are mistaken. For every answer you give me, your answer has consistently been a plea for you to review the context.
Now you tried here. But you use your preconceived view to form an opinion based on what little review you have done.
You should not rely on Job's word because he was forced to repent. You should not rely on anyone's idea of what happened because you should know they do not see the bigger picture. Had Job truly known what he was talking about, he would not have been grieved. He would have simply trusted God with no complaint.
It is a mistake to go on an implication of a plan based on a flawed grieving humans ignorant understanding of the almighty, especially one who confesses he spoke of things to wonderful to understand. And you should realize this if you consider the entire context.
Lets look at your latest proof text...
Job 9
15 For though I were righteous, I could not answer Him;
I would beg mercy of my Judge.
16 If I called and He answered me,
I would not believe that He was listening to my voice.
17 For He crushes me with a tempest,
And multiplies my wounds without cause.
18 He will not allow me to catch my breath,
But fills me with bitterness.
19 If it is a matter of strength, indeed He is strong;
And if of justice, who will appoint my day in court?
20 Though I were righteous, my own mouth would condemn me;
Though I were blameless, it would prove me perverse.
21 “
I am blameless, yet I do not know myself;
I despise my life.
22 It is all one thing;
Therefore I say, ‘He destroys the blameless and the wicked.’
Job is saying that Even though he is righteous, God destroys him, and there is nothing he can do. He cannot plea for justice because God would strike him down for it. Job is painting the perfect picture of the way you believe God is.
You are again painting a wrong picture. In fact, Job is proclaiming his own righteous. Look at the whole chapter.
You said:
'No, you see, "you did not speak of me what was right" refers to the prior speeches of Job's friends, so then "as Job did" refers to the prior speeches of Job--and this comes from the context.'
I know Job refers to prior speech,,, because just PRIOR to that HE REPENTED. Just think about it Lee, why would God come down and question Job if Job already knew it all? It is silly to think Job had all the answers when you consider context.
When we know that everyone in Job was made to repent because they said "God brings judgement on the innocent" you should know they were wrong. But now to wrap up the story, scripture makes a very simple statement intended to show why everyone was comforting Job.
You point out: But this statement is by Scripture itself, not by a person. Job 42:11 They comforted and consoled him over all the trouble the Lord had brought upon him, and each one gave him a piece of silver and a gold ring.
So in light of the understanding, we can see that it is a figure of speech. The true point of the context is "Job was blessed," we already know God doesn't bring disaster on the innocent. That was established already.
