Jerry Shugart said:
ChristisKing,
There is nothing in the "context" that demand that the phrase "all men" at 1Tim.2:1 must refer to all types of men.Yes,the words in regard to "kings" are a "subset" of the "set" "all types of men",but it is also a "subset" of the "set" of "all men everywhere".
Paul specifically mentions only "...
kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.." He didn't mention fisherman or tax collectors or tent makers. Why did he just mention only one tiny minority of earth's entire population? Why didn't he mention other subset's? You must begin to ask yourself, "Is Paul trying to make a specific point with this specific subset?"
I think so.
I think you ignored this specific subset that Paul specifically emphasized because you only saw what you really wanted to see and that is the phrase "all men," and you jumped all over it. Now maybe you will be more careful after seeing how the Holy Spirit uses the phrase "all men" throughout the rest of Scripture.
Jerry Shugart said:
And if we look at the earlier verses we can see the following:
"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief"(1Tim.1:15).
Jerry, you are pointing out one of the most strongest Calvinistic verses in the entire Bible. In the very next verse Paul says:
1TI 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy,
that in me first Jesus Christ might show forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
Paul's salvation was indeed a
pattern "to them which should hereafter believe." Paul was saved against his will. He was saved whilst try to crush Jesus Christ and all His people on earth. He was saved while he hated Jesus Christ and all Christ stood for!! Paul's salvation was a complete and utter surprise to him, he wasn't looking for Christ, Christ was looking for him!
Yes, Christ came into the world to save sinners, and He saves every single one that He came to save and He saves them all
"in the same pattern" that He saved Paul, against their wills while enemies of the cross and with absolutely no effort on their part!! Even the faith they have is given to them by God!
Jerry Shugart said:
After all,the Lord died for "every man":
"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man"(Heb.2:9).
Another verse when "taken in context" that specifically and strongly teaches that Christ came and died only for "the elect."
HEB 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for
every man.
In the very next verses the Holy Spirit teaches who these "every man" are:
They are "
many sons":
HEB 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things,
in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
They are "
the sanctified, His brothers":
HEB 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
They are "
the Church":
HEB 2:12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
They are "
the children which God gave to Christ":
HEB 2:13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
They are "
the children which God gave to Christ who were flesh and blood":
HEB 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
I see the phrase "every man" that Christ came and died for to be specifically defined as "
many sons," "
the sanctified,"
His Brothers," "
the Church," "
the children God gave Christ" and no where, absolutely no where, does it say every single person who ever lived on earth.
Jerry Shugart said:
Then later in the first epistle to Timothy we read:
"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth...Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time"(1Tim.2:4,6).
And earlier in Timothy we read:
1TI 2:2
For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
Which was testified in due time with the Christianization of the entire Roman Empire and its kings and all those in authority only 300 years later.
Jerry Shugart said:
And the Scriptures reveal that He did in fact give Himself a ransom for all men:
"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world"(1Jn.2:2).
The Scriptures reveal that
John was an apostle to the Jews, "
the circumcision:"
GAL 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and
John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and
they unto the circumcision.
John wrote his letters to the Jews! All John is saying in this verse is that salvation is not for the Jews only but also for the Gentiles. The word "ours" in the verse you quoted means
John and the Jews to whom he is writing. Another help you will find when interpreting Scripture is to understand exactly to whom the various letters are being written to so you don't misapply the use of "us" and "ours."
So to attempt to say that 1Tim.2:4,6 is in regard to "every single man ever to have lived on earth" because of your misinterpretation of only one or two phrases simply taken out of context falls apart because of the weight of the Scriptual evidence to the contrary.