Philetus said:
Protestants are here. And so are Catholics. So what? It’s the sad reality. Sin doesn’t threaten God, but it is a real threat to creation and at least the quality of life if not life itself. Our division even within the Body of Christ is evidence.
Sin does not even threaten the Creation, for the Creation that truly is the Creation is that which is grounded in God (who raises the dead). Sin cannot even threaten the Creation, for we who are found in God have overcome the evil of the world through the practice of what is good and right, a praxis taught to us by our Lord. In fact, we have overcome the world!
The divisions within the Body only shows that the Body does not consist in an invisible unity conceived of in nominalist theology. Even the hegemony of the church must fall. All the catholicity I need is grounded in the creeds of the early church. There needs to be a foundation for all who gather in Christ's name, and there must be hospitality shown among us even as we travel to different gatherings from our home one. This is the universality of the church, which is grounded in Christ. The Body of Christ is not mainly universal but is embodied (is that so radical a thought?). The Body of Christ is not a mystical and invisible union of believers; it is a real and practical union witnessed as we gather in worship (which is our entire life). The Body of Christ is a real
body (i.e. a gathering).
The greater divisions of the church only shows that the church should not be invisible (i.e. a conception of the union of all believers everywhere). We are not united in body if we do not gather together; we are united in Spirit, that is, if we both submit to Christ (which comes in a common praxis found in the reading of the scriptures, in baptism, in the passing of peace, in praying as our Lord taught us to pray, in obedience to the commands of Christ, and in Eucharist (thanksgiving). As I said before, this minimal praxis is found in the early creeds of the church.
Philetus said:
The opportunity to return to God is God centered. Your argument that the narrative has been highjacked and made anthropocentric is unfounded. The big story is the same one that I embrace.
Which big story do you embrace? The story of God's Creation (movement from chaos to worship)? Or do you embrace the story of Substitionary Atonement (movement through Creation, fall, atonement, and salvation)? The first is grounded in God; the second is grounded in men. The first is one embraced by the church from its beginning; the second is a story initiated by the liberal protestants of the 19th and 20th centuries. Understand that I am in no way denying the fall, the atonement, or salvation, but the way in which I understand such things is not primary to the story. The story that takes center stage is the Creation; in other words, Creation is not a past event. It is an event that was initiated in the past and continues to its culmination (a perfected aspect). There is a reason why we in the church speak of "a New Creation."
The difference I find in the two stories is also a difference in how we live as Christians. Is the life of the Christian defined by the altar-call (which is the action brought about by the story of Substitutionary Atonement, which moves a person from guilt to fulfillment)? Or is the life of the Christian defined by baptism (which moves the person to live in reflection of Christ's own life, and grounds the person in catechism [discipleship])? Baptism and catechism were very early practices of the church (though not as formal or dogmatic as the catechism and baptism in many of the "main-line" churches of our day). Baptism and Catechism were a means of grace in the early church, for they were commanded by our Lord. And in giving to us these basic structures (actions), Christ was teaching us how we might live. They are not the source of grace (anymore than your or my words are a source of grace), but just as Paul can grant Grace to the churches through his words, so too can grace by granted through such practices. But only as we practice them in truth. They are by no means magical (anymore than my words have magically altered your oppinion).
Philetus said:
How we work out the details in our own lives shouldn’t cause the kind of conflict it does, but it does.
What conflict are you speaking of here? Are you referring to our disagreement?
I suspect that if we were ‘doing the Gospel’ together rather than debating the Gospel at odds, we would find far more in common than the words that divide. [/QUOTE]
This is not true in all cases, but is probably very true in our case. There are very good reasons to be at odds concerning the gospel (especially if there are some who preach a gospel which is "really no gospel at all"; this is the reality concerning the gospel told in the two narratives I outlined before
Philetus said:
The humanity you describe is not the humanity we are, nor is it the humanity we encounter in the world.
It
is the humanity we are. We are really corrupt people, because we are caught up in the higherarchy of man that tries to define us by a different standard (like Rome had done in the time the scriptures of the New Testament were being written). And sometimes we aren't aware of our corruption because of how imbedded we are in this system. There are things that we do that are really wrong, and yet we do not even think about it (because we have been taught to "accept certain losses." When a soldier shoots a child in battle, rarely is such an action done with intention behind it (although I have to wonder when people bomb targets knowing that children and other innocents are present; I wonder who in the Bush administration decided that the lives of six children were worth exchanging for the life of a high priority target?). More often than not the soldier's senses and adrenaline have gotten the best of him (because despite the best training, a soldier on the battlefield remains human). And despite the lack of intentionality behind such actions, that soldier is horribly corrupted by this murder (on a similar level as the child and the family of that child). It leads to disorder of the mind and a breakdown of social ability as the soldier is forced to remember this incident for the rest of his life (the vividness of the memory constantly plaguing him).
Sin is a constant threat on our life, because sin feeds on life (it is parasitically dependant upon the good). And so we as Christians are constantly on the guard. We do not fear sin or death (because they have been overcome by Christ). But we watch ourselves in the already but not yet, for if we stand our ground we will yield fruit in a season. We are called to follow after Christ in baptism, which means we are constantly putting to death the world that is in us (that is, the corruption brought upon us by the world) even to the point of death; and we are constantly being raised in new life in Christ, as we are grounded in the praxis of the church (in a daily life of worship that reenvisions the world according to what Christ has taught us, according to the true Creation).
Philetus said:
It is only in Christ that we come to know who we are and why we are here. And Christ in us is the only hope some have of ever realizing and experiencing that true humanity in this life.
And Christ not only reveals to us ourselves, but God also. Only as we come to God do we know ourselves. We cannot possibly hope to know God in ourselves. And though we thought it difficult to approach God (like Israel cowering at the foot of the mountain refusing to approach God) we can approach Christ, and in the approaching we know God in humanity (a humanity which is not our own); and we know our humanity in God (as God draws us nearer to him in Christ). Christ
among us is the hope of realizing and experiencing true humanity. As Christ draws us together by his Spirit, that we might gather in his name, not only once a week, but more often as the day approaches, we are the hope for the world. The world will see us as we gather and know that "God is truly among us." And they will know that we are in Christ as we love one another in the same way that Christ first loved us (as those with the means give to those with none; as those with little means sell what little they have for the sake of the whole [the earliest Christians were willing to sell themselves into slavery in order to provide for their brothers and sisters in Christ]; as we begin to value things in this world that the world could never value; as we are willing to die in testimony of Christ to strengthren the faith of our brethren [something that has been very real in China over the last few centuries]).
Philetus said:
Our following Christ is a pale reflection of God in Christ and the goal of our participation in the divine nature is not to elevate our selves but to have the mind of Christ and serve as He served.
"May this attitude (mind) be in you that was in Christ Jesus, who being in very nature God, did not think it something to be exploited. But he emptied himself, taking on the very nature of a slave, being made in human likeness. And being found as a man, he humbled himself unto obedience even in the cross death. And because of this, God exalted him to the highest place, giving him the most exalted name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
Philetus said:
We return as slaves in our thinking and God treats us as sons. And we are now the sons of God.
But do you not see that God never ceased to treat us as his children? It is only we who thought that God had forsaken us (when in fact we had forsaken him).
Philetus said:
It hath not yet appeared what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is. For now, we see in part. Maybe you see more than the rest of us. Maybe not. Still, you haven’t got it all.
This is very true. However, "these three things remain, faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love." If we learn to love one another, not like the Beetle's song, but as Christ has taught us, we will be seeing as much as we need to now see. We will have it, we just won't possess it, for it is not ours to possess. It will be a gift that we give back to God.
Philetus said:
You have a blind side, elder brother. Move over son, there are servants in the house again and they aren’t grabbing for status with you or the Father. They are racing back to the field as an act of worship for the privilege of just being family.
Peace,
Michael
