ARCHIVE: My niece is gay and I love her for it. So does God.

Freak

New member
Originally posted by wickwoman


O.K., now that was a metaphor. Try to keep up.

I have read the Bhagavad Gita, the Upanishads, and portions of the Rig Veda. I find Indian Guru's to be among the most enlighted of our species. I am not a student of India as a country, just of Hinduism as a religion.

You, on the other hand, have not earned the right to criticize either because you've proven your complete ignorance of any religion other than your own. Wait, I take that back, I'm not sure you even know your own religion.

Blah Blah blah....

You said: I find Indian Guru's to be among the most enlighted of our species.

Then why is it in their Indian cities they have ghats that lead up to lingams? Is this enlightening? Does this make the gurus enlightened? Tell me why the Ganges, is considered holy (even god like) by these enlightened gurus, yet this deity can't keep the waters pure---the cholera statistics prove their deity is incapable of helping the people that worship in the Ganges.
 
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HerodionRomulus

New member
Regarding God and gender:

I recall the words of a hymn, I forget the title but the second verse says:

"Our God is not a woman, our God is not a man, our God is both and neither, our God is I Who Am."

Yet, there is plenty of feminine imagery of God in the Bible: at the end of Matt ch 23 Jesus compares himself to a mother hen gathering her chicks
In Matt. 11:19, in reference to the Holy Spirit Jesus says "Yet Wisdom is vindicated by her children."
It was standard practice to refer to the HS in the OT as Wisdom, a feminine name i.e. Sophia.
"Does not Wisdom call, and does not understanding raise her voice?" Prov. 8:1.
 

HerodionRomulus

New member
One of the oldest civilizations in the world was that of the Indus Valley.
But you cannot compare that to modern India which has been traumatized, abused, pillaged and raped by many including self-righteous British "Christians."
 

Freak

New member
Originally posted by HerodionRomulus
One of the oldest civilizations in the world was that of the Indus Valley.
But you cannot compare that to modern India which has been traumatized, abused, pillaged and raped by many including self-righteous British "Christians."


...modern India which has been traumatized, abused, pillaged and raped by many crazed demonized Hindus content in allowing millions to suffer because of karmic law.
 

Freak

New member
Hinduism is hideous, Eireann.

Shiva assumes such sickening disguises such as: Bhairava, Ardhanarisvara, Nataraja, Nandi, these four alone represent a god of terror, a lord with 4 arms, and a white bull (Nandi) that Shiva rides as he encourages starvation & self-mutilation.

Karmic law is a law of retributive justice which basically calls for an onward movement adding good and evil to its credit in a merciless manner. Some seek moksha (liberation) but resign to the fact that they might have to be reborn millions of times to find liberation from this vicious cycle.

This is sad.
 

Eireann

New member
I don't know a whole lot about Hinduism, as I've never studied it in depth. But having a God of evil or terror does not in itself make the religion hideous. After all, you've got one of those, too (Satan). The evils which the Hindus attribute to their evil gods are the same evils you attribute to yours, generally, I think. I'm sure there are subsets of the Hindus who worship those Gods. There are also Christians who worship their god of evil (i.e. Satanists, who are a subset of Christianity). The gods of evil and destruction in Hinduism also have their good and beneficent counterparts, as does Satan in Christianity. Really, the only difference I see there is in numbers. They have many of each, and you have one of each.

Karmic Law is simply the idea that you get back what you give. If you do good, you get good in return. Do evil, get evil in return. What comes around goes around. The Golden Rule. Etc. That's Karmic Law. Not all religions that believe in Karmic Law take it to the extreme that Hinduism may, with an endless cycle of reincarnation.

Speaking of reincarnation, just remember that you don't have any real evidence that it doesn't happen that way. I don't count teachings from a holy text as evidence. I'm not saying that I do or don't believe in reincarnation. I make no commitment on it. I've heard several afterlife theories, from reincarnation to heaven/hell, and so far no one has shown me anything to nudge me more in one direction than another. I would almost say that what little empirical evidence there is of a possible afterlife favors at least some notion of reincarnation.
 
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Freak

New member
Originally posted by Eireann
I don't know a whole lot about Hinduism, as I've never studied it in depth. But having a God of evil or terror does not in itself make the religion hideous. After all, you've got one of those, too (Satan). The evils which the Hindus attribute to their evil gods are the same evils you attribute to yours, generally, I think. I'm sure there are subsets of the Hindus who worship those Gods. There are also Christians who worship their god of evil (i.e. Satanists, who are a subset of Christianity). The gods of evil and destruction in Hinduism also have their good and beneficent counterparts, as does Satan in Christianity. Really, the only difference I see there is in numbers. They have many of each, and you have one of each.

Karmic Law is simply the idea that you get back what you give. If you do good, you get good in return. Do evil, get evil in return. What comes around goes around. The Golden Rule. Etc. That's Karmic Law. Not all religions that believe in Karmic Law take it to the extreme that Hinduism may, with an endless cycle of reincarnation.

Speaking of reincarnation, just remember that you don't have any real evidence that it doesn't happen that way. I don't count teachings from a holy text as evidence.

Moksha is not possible as many Hindus acknowledge. So its a cruel religion. Christianity offers mercy.

There is no personal loving gracious relationship with the Divine in Hinduism. But Jesus offers a loving relationship with those who come to Him.
 

Flipper

New member
I don't think Nandi is actually Shiva, Freak, rather his divine vehicle. Well, perhaps only in the sense that in Hinduism, all things are just manifestations of another ultimate reality.
 

Flipper

New member
Moksha is not possible as many Hindus acknowledge. So its a cruel religion. Christianity offers mercy.

Buddhism was presented as a way off the eternal treadmill too. In fact, it is the duty of those who have found a way out from the eternal cycle of life and death to help others achieve this goal. The buddhist delays his own personal salvation to help others achieve theirs. So, I guess, Buddhism is even more merciful?
 

OMEGA

New member
FFRREEAAKK

FFRREEAAKK

I am beginning to see a more mature side to you .

I am pleased that you seem to show more Mercy

in your understanding of other peoples of this world.

It is too bad beany boy does not share your Altruism .

" Then why is it in their Indian cities they have ghats that lead up to lingams? Is this enlightening? Does this make the gurus enlightened? Tell me why the Ganges, is considered holy (even god like) by these enlightened gurus, yet this deity can't keep the waters pure---the cholera statistics prove their deity is incapable of helping the people that worship in the Ganges ":nono:
 

wickwoman

New member
Originally posted by Freak
Hinduism is hideous, Eireann.

Shiva assumes such sickening disguises such as: Bhairava, Ardhanarisvara, Nataraja, Nandi, these four alone represent a god of terror, a lord with 4 arms, and a white bull (Nandi) that Shiva rides as he encourages starvation & self-mutilation.

Karmic law is a law of retributive justice which basically calls for an onward movement adding good and evil to its credit in a merciless manner. Some seek moksha (liberation) but resign to the fact that they might have to be reborn millions of times to find liberation from this vicious cycle.

This is sad.

#1: Have you read Revelation lately?

#2: Karmic law, in its simplicity, is the idea that no good deed goes unrewarded, no bad deed goes unpunished. It frees us from the ideas in this life that the bad will "get away with it" because they will not. They will continue to be reborn until they reach perfection. It is a very hopeful idea in that all will eventually be perfect. It also explains some very hopeless situations, like children born with hideous birth defects and disabilities or born into abusive homes. These children may be working out karma from previous lives.

#3: the cycle of birth and death is not endless. In the end, the soul reaches Nirvana which is basically Heaven.

To sum up, karma makes God seem a lot nicer and just. He/she is just and all will be rewarded for their actions. Sometimes we do not see justice in action but we can be assured it will come. It is as real as the law of gravity, which, I might add, God does not have to monitor. It was set into action the day the world was formed. It is the same with karma. God can allow everything to continue on it's natural course. Which is the most wonderful thing about karma - EVERYTHING IS AS IT SHOULD BE.
 
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Sozo

New member
Originally posted by wickwoman

It also explains some very hopeless situations, like children born with hideous birth defects and disabilities or born into abusive homes. These children may be working out karma from previous lives.

This nonsensical notion perpetuates evil. The abuser is a victim of fatalism.
 

wickwoman

New member
Originally posted by Sozo


This nonsensical notion perpetuates evil. The abuser is a victim of fatalism.

Lots of things perpetuate evil. That does not make them evil in and of themselves. A person who is committed to evil will do as he will absent your intervention or mine.

In reality, evil is a word that has no real meaning. You give it the meaning you would have it hold because you believe the world is an evil and frightening place. I say that evil means nothing except that certain people have not yet evolved to a higher state of being.

Evil is a vague and silly word that many use because they think is sounds menacing. So boo back at you!:p
 

Sozo

New member
Originally posted by wickwoman


Lots of things perpetuate evil. That does not make them evil in and of themselves. A person who is committed to evil will do as he will absent your intervention or mine.

In reality, evil is a word that has no real meaning. You give it the meaning you would have it hold because you believe the world is an evil and frightening place. I say that evil means nothing except that certain people have not yet evolved to a higher state of being.

Evil is a vague and silly word that many use because they think is sounds menacing. So boo back at you!:p

Aren't you just a bit embarassed to voice your opinions in a public forum?

So, you don't believe that rape, murder, & child molestation are evil?

Those are perfectly valid ways for someone to behave that is enforcing punishment on those who have "bad karma"?

:nono:
 

Freak

New member
Originally posted by Flipper


Buddhism was presented as a way off the eternal treadmill too. In fact, it is the duty of those who have found a way out from the eternal cycle of life and death to help others achieve this goal. The buddhist delays his own personal salvation to help others achieve theirs. So, I guess, Buddhism is even more merciful?

Your eyes are being opened, Flipper, as you see no hope for the Hindu.

Hinduism offers a bleak view of reality, a lila , where Christianity offers peace, mercy, redemption through Jesus Christ
 

Freak

New member
Originally posted by Sozo


Aren't you just a bit embarassed to voice your opinions in a public forum?

So, you don't believe that rape, murder, & child molestation are evil?

Those are perfectly valid ways for someone to behave that is enforcing punishment on those who have "bad karma"?

:nono:

Sozo, you must understand, these Hindus are programmed to believe in maya with all of its ramifications--hence they can go to a place like Haiti or Calcutta and not be bothered. Matter is an illusion. Sin/evil is an illusion.

The suffering, wickwoman sees, is not real. Remember, it is maya and therefore unworthy of any efforts to alleviate. What a brutal religion Hinduism truly is.
 

Sozo

New member
Originally posted by Freak


Sozo, you must understand, these Hindus are programmed to believe in maya with all of its ramifications--hence they can go to a place like Haiti or Calcutta and not be bothered. Matter is an illusion. Sin/evil is an illusion.

The suffering, wickwoman sees, is not real. Remember, it is maya and therefore unworthy of any efforts to alleviate. What a brutal religion Hinduism truly is.

Well, maybe they are right. There is no evidence that they have one ounce of brain matter.
 

Freak

New member
Wickwoman, your atman, yearns not for union with Brahman but rather for a living relationship with Jesus Christ.

You are in a conundrum, my friend, you view reality as being one is essence but in truth (which Hindus insist) reality has various expressions (polytheism). Hindus speak of ego/self being dissolved, existingushed by a oneness--becoming God.

Wickwoman--you need deliverance. Demons have truly ensnared you. Jesus however can set you free.
 

wickwoman

New member
Originally posted by Sozo


Aren't you just a bit embarassed to voice your opinions in a public forum?

So, you don't believe that rape, murder, & child molestation are evil?

Those are perfectly valid ways for someone to behave that is enforcing punishment on those who have "bad karma"?

:nono:

I am never embarassed by what I believe. Are you embarassed at your total lack of understanding of basic concepts that were accepted by religions that pre-existed Christianity for thousands of years?
 
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