ARCHIVE: Fool is only fooling himself

[fool]

i dont think the question is at all powerful.

It spawned 4 shows and a sticky archive thread.
Seems some would disagree with you.

 

[Balder]

I don't think the question is the sort of question that will tumble Christianity. But it is a question which, when seriously considered, has the power to tumble certain interpretations of Christianity.

If you have a conscience.

 

[Stripe]

Why not? Is it not relevant if the Bible attributes actions and behaviors to God which you find morally reprehensible?

yes it is relevant, but that was not the question.

Doesn't that demand some sort of explanation? I know you feel comfortable just speaking for yourself ("I won't do it") and not commenting on the actual events in the Bible, but that seems a bit "weak" to me.

i feel comfortable speaking for myself because that was what the question asked. what would i do. i am perfectly comfortable answering what i would do and you can infer no quality on me past that.

 

[Stripe]

It spawned 4 shows and a sticky archive thread.
Seems some would disagree with you.

yeah and there were like .. nine police academy movies as well ..

 

[fool]

yeah and there were like .. nine police academy movies as well ..

Look what they did for Steve Gutenberg!

 

[Stripe]

Look what they did for Steve Gutenberg!

oh craaaaap

anyway .. back to the fu... TOPIC!

uh ...

your thread may be long but it doesnt do a lot.

 

[fool]

oh craaaaap

anyway .. back to the fu... TOPIC!

uh ...

your thread may be long but it doesnt do a lot.

It sure looks pretty at the top of the Bob Enyart forum.

 

[Stripe]

tell me fool - what is more important to you?

is it more important that your original question challenges people and ideas and promotes truth

or

is it more important that your thread is nailed to the wall and that it took bob 4 shows to call you evil

obviously neither of those options seem very palatable, but thats only par for the course in whats been offered so far in this thread. so ill let the options stand and allow you also to respond to the general question: "what was your original motivation in asking the question behind this thread?" in lieu of stepping into my carefully constructed trap.

 

[Turbo]

No, by the definitions I gave, you cannot commit an unlawful killing without it being murder - no mention of "just" or "justified".

OK, now look up the entry for "unlawful."

Unjust and unlawful are synonyms.

There's a reason just about every dictionary defines murder as unlawful killing rather than illegalkilling. The definition of unlawful is broader. It can mean illegal or immoral (i.e. wrongful, unjust).

 

[Granite]

right.

how can i resist an invitation like that (rhetorical question mark).

your original comment seemed to imply that ones christianity is only made certain by the time its had to establish itself. this assumption is a poor insight on so many levels but let me try and convey where it craws me...

it is probabably a universal fact that the more time one spends constructing something the more valuable it will be to the designer. the key in this issue is the universality. your implication is that the christian is capable of this which unfairly leaves out the rest of humanity indicating that their attachment to what they have built is based entirely on what money they can make out of the venture.

i'll be found guilty of all you imply here if you accept that your own designs are worth more to you that the cost of the construction materials plus labour...

deal?

The more time one devotes to any given cause the more valuable it will be--yes, I'd agree. Beyond that I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

 

[Stripe]

The more time one devotes to any given cause the more valuable it will be--yes, I'd agree. Beyond that I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

im trying to tell fool that hes invested a lot of time and effort into these posts and that radio show and therefore he is unlikely to retract anything no matter how irrelevant his original question is shown to be.

and (off topic) i was trying to point out to you that if you believe a christians refusal to disadhere to hir beliefs based on the time investment is detrimental to their understanding of truth then the same must apply to all others.

you will never be able to escape the fact that humanity is all in the same boat and the minute you try and accuse one group of something you are only bailing water from your compartment into theirs. perhaps their end will sink faster and yours will rise briefly, but in the end youre still making a horror film.

 

[Granite]

im trying to tell fool that hes invested a lot of time and effort into these posts and that radio show and therefore he is unlikely to retract anything no matter how irrelevant his original question is shown to be.

and (off topic) i was trying to point out to you that if you believe a christians refusal to disadhere to hir beliefs based on the time investment is detrimental to their understanding of truth then the same must apply to all others.

you will never be able to escape the fact that humanity is all in the same boat and the minute you try and accuse one group of something you are only bailing water from your compartment into theirs. perhaps their end will sink faster and yours will rise briefly, but in the end youre still making a horror film.

Oh, gotcha. That makes more sense, thanks for clarifying.:thumb:

I'm not saying an emotional investment is the only or even biggest reason people stay in the faith, but it certainly helps (or hurts depending on what side you're on).

 

[Stripe]

Oh, gotcha. That makes more sense, thanks for clarifying.:thumb:
I'm not saying an emotional investment is the only or even biggest reason people stay in the faith, but it certainly helps (or hurts depending on what side you're on).

please describe what you think might be the main reason why people hold onto faith. please be aware of the trap that will force your reasoning equally onto all people regardless of the status of their mind.

if you dont wish to fall into that briar patch then please explain why and how some people are fundamentally different from others...

while youre at it could you please help convince fool to either retract his original question or at least restate it in a meaningful way. hes obviously got what hes come for so could he now let the rest of us have a turn ...

 

[On Fire]

Then why are you in here worrying that it's going to tumble Christanity?

One more time: You, fool, are NOT going to crumble Christianity. There's nothing for me to be worried about. It's your delusions of grandeur that concern me. You need psychiatric help.

 

[genuineoriginal]

One more time: You, fool, are NOT going to crumble Christianity. There's nothing for me to be worried about. It's your delusions of grandeur that concern me. You need psychiatric help.

Show me where psychiatric help ever made anyone better!

 

[fool]

"what was your original motivation in asking the question behind this thread?"

The best I could hope for was that somehow, somewhere, sometime, I gave a voice to the questions that all men have in their hearts, and perhaps solidified those questions into a statement.
"This far, and no further"

 

[fool]

im trying to tell fool that hes invested a lot of time and effort into these posts and that radio show and therefore he is unlikely to retract anything no matter how irrelevant his original question is shown to be.

Irrelevant?!
You call the slaughter of innocents irrelevant!
I do not find it irrelevant.

 

[fool]

One more time: You, fool, are NOT going to crumble Christianity.

Then why are you so frightened?

There's nothing for me to be worried about.

Keep tellin yourself that.

It's your delusions of grandeur that concern me.

Some men are born great, some become great, some have greatness thrust upon them.

You need psychiatric help.

Because Bob was unable to convince me it's OK to slaughter infants?
If killin babies makes you sane, I'll stick with crazy.

 

[Stripe]

Irrelevant?!
You call the slaughter of innocents irrelevant!
I do not find it irrelevant.

the QUESTION is irrelevant and if you continue to misrepresent me i will quickly start to call it DISHONEST.

look at me .. im so ticked off im capitalising...

no matter who you are trying to influence or what moral high ground you are trying to claim, you cannot claim it by posing a hypothetical question and pointing fingers no matter which path respondees take. you definitely cannot claim anything by IGNORING the challenge posed by your one 'opponent' in this matter who happens to take the same stance as you.

you claim to be trying to give a voice to the questions that "all men have in their hearts", but from your question it seems that you think the biggest question people have is would they kill babies or not. if you think this is a subject that many people struggle with on a day to day basis then you are seriously deluded. even if you think christians should have some problem with the issue based on bible stories you insult and offend beyond measure when you try to insinuate guilt onto them with illogical lines of questioning.

if you are so very determined to uphold a high moral standard then you must base it on truth. if you want truth on your side you must build a foundation, solely tearing down what you see as false will get you nowhere .. fast. im sure you understand human nature enough to realise that people must stand on something, so whenever you destroy a tower of belief the people will just jump to the next convenient structure .. im quite confident youre not going to break anything with a pop-gun hypothetical anyway.

theres my challenge to you fool .. start a thread that gets 4 shows and a thumb-tacked thread dedicated to it based on something you have built up using sound logic, common sense and something that genuinely challenges people rather than panders to one set of beliefs and alienates another. that sort of thing is called all sorts of foul names and is responsible for some of the worst sequels ever filmed.

until you retract your original question or restate it with some semblance of logic, "This far, and no further" can only pertain to your involvement in this discussion.

 

[Granite]

One more time: You, fool, are NOT going to crumble Christianity. There's nothing for me to be worried about. It's your delusions of grandeur that concern me. You need psychiatric help.

Since when did fool say he was crumbling Christianity?

There's no way to justify, spin, or dress up killing infants. Period.