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JudgeRightly

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I can back up everything I say with scripture! Show me where I haven't?
You said Christ didn't need to die on the cross to save man from eternal separation.

Yet CHRIST HIMSELF asked the Father if there was any other way, to let the cup of punishment be passed from him, but if there wasn't, He would do the Father's will, and die on the cross, AND HE DID IT THREE TIMES! NOT ONCE did the Father tell Jesus that there was any other way to save mankind. JESUS HAD TO DIE ON THE CROSS TO SAVE MANKIND FROM SIN.
 

marhig

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You said Christ didn't need to die on the cross to save man from eternal separation.

Yet CHRIST HIMSELF asked the Father if there was any other way, to let the cup of punishment be passed from him, but if there wasn't, He would do the Father's will, and die on the cross, AND HE DID IT THREE TIMES! NOT ONCE did the Father tell Jesus that there was any other way to save mankind. JESUS HAD TO DIE ON THE CROSS TO SAVE MANKIND FROM SIN.
He had to bare his cross, and he had to suffer the cross and take whatever was set before him and endure it and show love and mercy, and not sin to overcome satan and the world leaving us a perfect example to follow, I have never ever said that Jesus didn't have to suffer the cross, he had to suffer whatever we set before him. But Jesus dying on the cross is not what saves us. We are saved by the grace of God through faith, once we hear that gospel and believe in Christ and repent and live by the will of God.

Tell me, how does God coming from heaven to be crucified by wicked men to appease his own wrath save you?
 

JudgeRightly

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He had to bare his cross, and he had to suffer the cross and take whatever was set before him and endure it and show love and mercy, and not sin to overcome satan and the world leaving us a perfect example to follow,

That sounds good, but it's coming from a false teacher. Jesus had to die on the cross to save mankind from sin.

I have never ever said that Jesus didn't have to suffer the cross,

HERE IS YOUR OWN QUOTE, YOU LIAR:

It doesn't say in the Bible that we have to believe in Jesus dying on the cross to be saved or that we have to have faith in the cross, but that we have to believe in Jesus Christ and that he was raised from the dead, and have faith in the living God and live by his will, and I do through Christ Jesus.

God didn't need Jesus to die on a wooden cross to save, he needed him to be dead to the flesh to save and that's exactly what he was, dead to the flesh and alive in God preaching the word of truth and life and those who believe in him are saved from this world of sin and death through the power of the Spirit. His words are Spirit and they are life. No need for him to die to save. He lived to save, he was saving in his lifetime.

THOSE ARE YOUR VERY OWN WORDS, MARHIG. YOU DENY THE NECESSITY OF CHRIST DYING ON THE CROSS TO SAVE MANKIND. Not only does that make you a heretic, IT MAKES YOU A FALSE PROPHET.

he had to suffer whatever we set before him. But Jesus dying on the cross is not what saves us. We are saved by the grace of God through faith, once we hear that gospel and believe in Christ and repent and live by the will of God.

More nice sounding things being said, still coming from a false teacher.

Tell me Marhig, why did Jesus die on the cross?

Tell me, how does God coming from heaven to be crucified by wicked men to appease his own wrath save you?

Tell me, Marhig, how does God HIMSELF becoming man and giving His own life to pay the price for sin not save you?
 

marhig

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[MENTION=13959]meshak[/MENTION] and [MENTION=17355]popsthebuilder[/MENTION]

Matthew 5

Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
 

JudgeRightly

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Jesus spoke like he did to those who didn't believe in him and those who used God to make a profit for themselves.

John isn't imitating Christ, he speaks nothing like him!

He spoke to them that way because they were wicked.

John speaks to you the way he does because YOU ARE WICKED for saying Christ did not need to die on the cross, as I just showed you that you said.
 

JudgeRightly

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@ meshak

Matthew 5

Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

So the wicked are blessed when a righteous man condemns them? Now you're just twisting scripture to defend yourself, heretic.
 

marhig

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That sounds good, but it's coming from a false teacher. Jesus had to die on the cross to save mankind from sin.



HERE IS YOUR OWN QUOTE, YOU LIAR:



THOSE ARE YOUR VERY OWN WORDS, MARHIG. YOU DENY THE NECESSITY OF CHRIST DYING ON THE CROSS TO SAVE MANKIND. Not only does that make you a heretic, IT MAKES YOU A FALSE PROPHET.



More nice sounding things being said, still coming from a false teacher.

Tell me Marhig, why did Jesus die on the cross?



Tell me, Marhig, how does God HIMSELF becoming man and giving His own life to pay the price for sin not save you?

Read that again, I said that it doesn't say that Jesus had to die on the cross TO SAVE US. Show me where it says that Jesus had to die to save us?

I've told you why Jesus died on the cross, he was crucified by wicked men, Jesus even said it was their hour and the power of darkness, satan is darkness and he crucified Jesus there is no darkness in God whatsoever, the crucifixion was the work of satan. Jesus had to suffer whatever happened to him, including the cross and not sin and overcome the world and satan.

You still haven't answered my question, how does God coming here to die on the cross to appease his own wrath save you

By the way, those entering the kingdom of heaven are those who live by the will of God.

I have to pop out with my daughter's, so I won't be able to answer you till later.
 

marhig

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He spoke to them that way because they were wicked.

John speaks to you the way he does because YOU ARE WICKED for saying Christ did not need to die on the cross, as I just showed you that you said.

Very judgemental there, I said Christ didn't need to die on the cross to save us. Jesus was saving before he died. He didn't need to die to save.

Also, show me where it says in the Bible that I must believe that Jesus died on the cross to save us, to be saved? We are saved by the grace of God through faith. And that is having faith in God and Christ, nowhere in the Bible does it say that I must have faith in the death of Jesus on the cross, nowhere!

Anyway I'm off out.
 

JudgeRightly

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Read that again, I said that it doesn't say that Jesus had to die on the cross TO SAVE US. Show me where it says that Jesus had to die to save us?

For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die.But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—(For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification.For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous. - Romans 5:6-19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans5:6-19&version=NKJV

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. - Philippians 2:5-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians2:5-8&version=NKJV

I could pull up more, but two are sufficient.

I've told you why Jesus died on the cross, he was crucified by wicked men, Jesus even said it was their hour and the power of darkness, satan is darkness and he crucified Jesus there is no darkness in God whatsoever, the crucifixion was the work of satan. Jesus had to suffer whatever happened to him, including the cross and not sin and overcome the world and satan.

Some of this tells me "how," but none of it tells me "why." I asked "Why did Jesus have to die on the cross?" Please answer the question that asked, and not the question that I didn't ask.

If it is, as you say, that Jesus was already saving people while living, then why not have Him keep living? Why have Him die at all, let alone be crucified, one of the most horrific ways to be executed at the time?

You still haven't answered my question, how does God coming here to die on the cross to appease his own wrath save you
\

I did answer it. I answered it with a question of my own. Answer mine, and you'll have the answer to yours.

By the way, those entering the kingdom of heaven are those who live by the will of God.

Those who live by the will of God are those who believe He died to save mankind. You clearly don't. You think He saved mankind just by living, yet you can't tell me why Jesus was crucified, only how and who did it.

Very judgemental there,

Says the hypocrite as she judges me for judging....

I said Christ didn't need to die on the cross to save us. Jesus was saving before he died. He didn't need to die to save.

YOU CONTRADICT SCRIPTURE, HERETIC.

For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die.But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—(For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification.For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous. - Romans 5:6-19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans5:6-19&version=NKJV

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. - Philippians 2:5-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians2:5-8&version=NKJV
 

meshak

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Luke 18

And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

This is what those self-exalters conveniently dismissing.
 

popsthebuilder

New member
For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die.But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—(For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification.For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous. - Romans 5:6-19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans5:6-19&version=NKJV

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. - Philippians 2:5-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians2:5-8&version=NKJV

I could pull up more, but two are sufficient.



Some of this tells me "how," but none of it tells me "why." I asked "Why did Jesus have to die on the cross?" Please answer the question that asked, and not the question that I didn't ask.

If it is, as you say, that Jesus was already saving people while living, then why not have Him keep living? Why have Him die at all, let alone be crucified, one of the most horrific ways to be executed at the time?

\

I did answer it. I answered it with a question of my own. Answer mine, and you'll have the answer to yours.



Those who live by the will of God are those who believe He died to save mankind. You clearly don't. You think He saved mankind just by living, yet you can't tell me why Jesus was crucified, only how and who did it.



Says the hypocrite as she judges me for judging....



YOU CONTRADICT SCRIPTURE, HERETIC.

For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die.But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—(For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification.For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous. - Romans 5:6-19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans5:6-19&version=NKJV

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. - Philippians 2:5-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians2:5-8&version=NKJV
He took the form of a bond servant that we might know the Way to GOD; that the gospel truth might be spread through the world.


Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
 

God's Truth

New member
Very judgemental there, I said Christ didn't need to die on the cross to save us. Jesus was saving before he died. He didn't need to die to save.

Also, show me where it says in the Bible that I must believe that Jesus died on the cross to save us, to be saved? We are saved by the grace of God through faith. And that is having faith in God and Christ, nowhere in the Bible does it say that I must have faith in the death of Jesus on the cross, nowhere!

Anyway I'm off out.

You did say Jesus didn't have to die on the cross.

We do have to believe in his blood shed on the cross.

The Bible explains it many times that through his body, his blood, and the cross.
 

God's Truth

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[MENTION=13959]meshak[/MENTION] and [MENTION=17355]popsthebuilder[/MENTION]

Matthew 5

Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Are you kidding by saying that to Meshak when she goes against others who are saved? She has condemned many many times by saying I am a fake Christian, etc. She also says Paul is condemned. Where are we supposed to use scripture to build up those who are hypocrites? Don't you then share in their guilt?
 

john w

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Luke 18

And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Leviticus 1.


So there.

Fun!
 

God's Truth

New member
No, everything I stated there is true. Perhaps you need to realise that we are all sinners and we all lie, slander, lack control, curse, etc. If you claim otherwise then it is you who is deceiving yourself.

You are deceiving yourself.

James 1:16 Don't be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters.

James 1:22
Be doers of the word, and not hearers only. Otherwise, you are deceiving yourselves.


Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.

1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men
 
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