AlanKeyes.com AmericanRightToLife.org

[PKevman]

Ron Paul and all Libertarians and those who hold Libertarian views politically will never be the correct answer for what ails our country.

 

[PKevman]

Anyone who takes an oath saying, "I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, so help me God," and then creates a law against abortion, is taking the name of the Lord in vain in a solemn oath.

I don't think so anyway. Because he is also saying, "SO HELP ME GOD". If God were truly helping whoever takes the office of presidency, abortion would be made illegal accross the board in the United States of America.

The Constitution does not give the President jurisdiction over abortion.

I think you could make a good argument that it does. And EVEN if the Constitution did not, the right to life comes from God Himself, not from a government document.

That's an issue that remains in the custody of the states. This is why Roe v. Wade was wrongfully decided.

Roe v. Wade was wrong not because of HOW it was passed, but because of what it actually is about. Bad laws are bad laws regardless of how they are passed and regardless of the form of government that is passing them.

The President can do nothing about abortion without violating his oath of office.

Who cares? Would you rather someone do what is right or refuse to do what is right due to a technicality?

What if you were in an auto accident and gave your word that you would NEVER EVER drive again....Then let's say you come across a situation where someone needs to be driven to the hospital or they are going to die.
Would you REFUSE to drive them there because you had sworn that you would never drive again? Or would you violate what you had sworn NOT to do in order to do what is right?

This smells like the annihilation of your position. :banana:

 

[PKevman]

His emotional age is much younger then a teenager.

Have you ever met him to make that judgment?

 

[PKevman]

Not face to face. Since when can Christians not judge on this forum?

There are different meanings to the term "Judgment" Joe. I was using it in the sense of forming an opinion. You made a charge that Lightouse was a teenager "emotionally". I've met the guy and worshiped with him. I don't agree that he is a teenager emotionally.

 

[Vine&FigTree]

This whole debate about oaths is irrelevant to the big picture: Millions of innocent babies are being slaughtered mercilessly. We need to do something about that instead of debating what is and isn't an oath.

The reason why state abortion laws were struck down by the federal judiciary is because federal judges did not keep their oath to abide by the Constitution. The answer to liberal oath-breakers is not conservative oath-breakers.

 

[Vine&FigTree]

Ron Paul and all Libertarians and those who hold Libertarian views politically will never be the correct answer for what ails our country.

What ails our country is a departure from the libertarian political views of John Hancock, Sam Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and the rest of America's Founding Fathers. The correct answer for what ails our country is not a return to king George III, or any other form of tyranny.

 

[Vine&FigTree]

I don't think so anyway. Because he is also saying, "SO HELP ME GOD". If God were truly helping whoever takes the office of presidency, abortion would be made illegal accross the board in the United States of America.

I don't believe God helps those who take His Name in vain and break solemn oaths.

And EVEN if the Constitution did not, the right to life comes from God Himself, not from a government document.

If you want to change LAWS, join the LEGISLATURE. Neither the Executive nor the Judiciary have the lawful authority to write or change laws.

Roe v. Wade was wrong not because of HOW it was passed, but because of what it actually is about. Bad laws are bad laws regardless of how they are passed and regardless of the form of government that is passing them.

Roe v. Wade was wrong not only because it was a bad decicion, but ALSO because it involved a violation of an oath. Those Justices did not have Constitutional authority to overrule state laws on abortion. They took an oath and violated it. They should be impeached. Why are you, a Pastor, so intent on minimizing or defending oath-breaking?? Why does the Constitution mean so little to you? Will God bless a nation of pro-life liars?

Who cares? Would you rather someone do what is right or refuse to do what is right due to a technicality?

An oath to God and the Constitution are not just "technicalities." You sound like you would favor Adolph Hitler as long as you agreed with his policies.

What if you were in an auto accident and gave your word that you would NEVER EVER drive again....Then let's say you come across a situation where someone needs to be driven to the hospital or they are going to die.
Would you REFUSE to drive them there because you had sworn that you would never drive again? Or would you violate what you had sworn NOT to do in order to do what is right?

The Bible does not countenance the taking of stupid oaths. But having taken an oath, remember Psalm 15:
1 LORD, who may abide in Your tabernacle?
Who may dwell in Your holy hill?
2 He who walks uprightly,
And works righteousness,
And speaks the truth in his heart;
4 He who swears to his own hurt and does not change;

This smells like the annihilation of your position. :banana:

It smells like the annihilation of moral absolutes to me. Situation ethics. Say what gets you elected, then do as you please.

If you give your support to Alan Keyes to take an oath to "support the Constitution" while intending to violate it, you give that same permission to his successor. You're saying a dictatorship is OK as long as the dictator dictates the way you like it. That sounds like the annihilation of a Constitutional Republic.

 

[PKevman]

The reason why state abortion laws were struck down by the federal judiciary is because federal judges did not keep their oath to abide by the Constitution. The answer to liberal oath-breakers is not conservative oath-breakers.

I disagree wholeheartedly. The answer has nothing to do with whether or not one is an "Oath-breaker".

The answer is to elect and appoint people who will not EVER compromise on God's enduring and righteous command: "DO NOT MURDER" no matter what happens.

THAT is the answer.

 

[PKevman]

What ails our country is a departure from the libertarian political views of John Hancock, Sam Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and the rest of America's Founding Fathers.

I disagree completely. What ails our country is a departure from Biblical truth and morals, and less people (by percentage) are saved than we had here when the country began.

 

[Granite]

His emotional age is much younger then a teenager.

I'd agree, which is why I finally put him in ignore...

I think Kevin and others here have an idea in their head as to what theythink this country was like, or what it was founded on and for, that's rather at odds with reality.

 

[Vine&FigTree]

Conservative Dictatorship

Conservative Dictatorship

I said,

The reason why state abortion laws were struck down by the federal judiciary is because federal judges did not keep their oath to abide by the Constitution. The answer to liberal oath-breakers is not conservative oath-breakers.

In response,

I disagree wholeheartedly.

Do you mean the answer to liberal oath-breakers IS in fact conservative oath-breakers? Really, Pastor Kev, you sound like the kind of person who would have voted for the conservative rhetoric of Adolph Hitler.

The answer has nothing to do with whether or not one is an "Oath-breaker".

Nothing at all??? Your view is completely out of step with America's Founders. (Not surprising, really, since our whole culture is.) Here's a refresher course on American government. The Constitutional answer to abortion is for Congress to impeach federal judges who violate their oaths and overturn state anti-abortion laws. Your desire to bypass representative government in favor of a dictatorship is most dangerous, unAmerican and unChristian.

The answer is to elect and appoint people who will not EVER compromise on God's enduring and righteous command: "DO NOT MURDER" no matter what happens.

THAT is the answer.

You need to watch a movie called "A Man for All Seasons," and come to grips with Thomas More's analogy of a nation's laws as a forest, and the danger of cutting down all those trees to deny the devil a place to hide. Your position leads to dictatorship. It is totally un-American for the President to write laws for the states. If you really want to abolish the Constitution and give unlimited power to Alan Keyes, be open and up-front about it. But don't take an oath saying you will abide by the Constitution.

 

[PKevman]

I said, In response,Do you mean the answer to liberal oath-breakers IS[/B] in fact conservative oath-breakers?

No. Viney Looney. The ANSWER to the problem is to elect and appoint people who will not EVER compromise on God's enduring and righteous command: "DO NOT MURDER" no matter what happens.

THAT is the answer. . The PROBLEM has NOTHING to do with what you are calling "Oathbreakers", and everything to do with the murder of innocent babies. While you debate unimportant semantics, millions of innocent children are being BRUTALLY killed and RIPPED out of their mother's wombs.

You attributed the problem to "Oathbreakers". This is part of your looney platform and you seem to be out to make a name for yourself on this judging from your silly website. The problem has NOTHING to do with that and everything to do with the fact that people have supported candidates willing to allow innocent BABIES to be brutally murdered.

Really, Pastor Kev, you sound like the kind of person who would have voted for the conservative rhetoric of Adolph Hitler.Nothing at all???

Any righteous person reading their Bible could have seen through Hitler's racism. It was hardly hidden. This is a silly way to try to shift the attention away from the fact that your position has been completely destroyed.

Your view is completely out of step with America's Founders. (Not surprising, really, since our whole culture is.)

I could care less who you THINK would have supported candidates who will compromise on the murder of the innocent. I could care less whose views I would be out of step with for saying that murdering innocent babies is wrong. It's wrong regardless of what YOU or any other person alive says. God agrees. Do you agree with God?

Your desire to bypass representative government in favor of a dictatorship is most dangerous, unAmerican and unChristian.

Who said anything about a dictatorship? Please discuss an issue without resorting to useless straw man positions. Thanks.

 

[Vine&FigTree]

No. Viney Looney.

"Looney?"

I have a new theory. Not only is "Lighthouse" a teenager, but the fellow behind the name "Lighthouse" is the same fellow behind the name "Pastor" Kevin.

But I could be wrong.

The ANSWER to the problem is to elect and appoint people who will not EVER compromise on God's enduring and righteous command: "DO NOT MURDER" no matter what happens.

As I read your posts, you want Alan Keyes to be elected President of the United States so he can stop abortion. I assume that means writing laws which the Constitution says should be written by the states. You want Alan Keyes to take an oath to support the Constitution, and then ignore the Constitution and write laws even though all laws are to be written by the Legislative Branch, not the Executive Branch, and not the federal government, but the state governments. Have I got that right, "Pastor" Kevin?

THAT is the answer. . The PROBLEM has NOTHING to do with what you are calling "Oathbreakers", and everything to do with the murder of innocent babies.

In opposing Ron Paul as ferociously as you do, I hope you'll admit that Ron Paul would never think of aborting a baby.

While you debate unimportant semantics, millions of innocent children are being BRUTALLY killed and RIPPED out of their mother's wombs.

Millions of parents are also failing to teach their children the Bible, as the Bible commands (Deut 6:6-9). Do you want President Alan Keyes to impose a law that solves that problem too?

You attributed the problem to "Oathbreakers". This is part of your looney platform and you seem to be out to make a name for yourself on this judging from your silly website. The problem has NOTHING to do with that and everything to do with the fact that people have supported candidates willing to allow innocent BABIES to be brutally murdered.

Every President in recent memory has "allowed" prostitution, home burglaries, child molestation, embezzlement, overeating, and idolatry, by failing to impose laws in all 50 states against these sins. Has Alan Keyes secretly promised you that if he's elected President, he'll not allow these things to happen as well?

Any righteous person reading their Bible could have seen through Hitler's racism. It was hardly hidden. This is a silly way to try to shift the attention away from the fact that your position has been completely destroyed.

My position is that the Constitution does not allow the President to write laws for the states, and candidates should not take an oath to support a Constitution which they have no intention of following. How has that position been "completely destroyed?"

I could care less who you THINK would have supported candidates who will compromise on the murder of the innocent.

If "lighthouse" refuses to punish abortionists, either by executing them or locking them up in his basement, is lighthouse "compromising" on the murder of the innocent? If Mexico's President Felipe De Jesus Calderon Hinojosa fails to execute American abortionists, has he "compromised" on the murder of the innocent? So why do you expect the President of the United States to do something that would be a violation of his oath of office?

I could care less whose views I would be out of step with for saying that murdering innocent babies is wrong. It's wrong regardless of what YOU or any other person alive says. God agrees. Do you agree with God?

Of COURSE I agree that abortion is murder. Do you agree that not every person in the world has a right to punish abortionists? (If you want to say that every person who knows that his neighbor has killed a baby should take God's Law into his own hands and execute Godly punishments on his neighbor, and that's why AlanKeyes should do the same, then I'll respect you for being intellectually consistent. Otherwise, I'm going to assume you don't really want to engage in a serious discussion, but are just a blowhard.)

Under the Constitution of the United States, the President does not have the authority to punish abortionists or do anything to stop an abortion from taking place. That is to say, he has no more authority than you do or I do or the Prime Minster of Canada does to stop an abortion in America.

Who said anything about a dictatorship? Please discuss an issue without resorting to useless straw man positions. Thanks.

By advocating the suspension of the Constitution and giving Alan Keyes blanket authority to legislate against abortion, you are advocating a "benevolent" "Christian" dictatorship.

 

[PKevman]

have a new theory. Not only is "Lighthouse" a teenager, but the fellow behind the name "Lighthouse" is the same fellow behind the name "Pastor" Kevin.

Yep you just proved yourself to be a total looney and unworthy to discuss anything with. :chuckle:

The problem you have is that there are many people that have seen myself and Lighthouse in the same room together. Some of them right here on TOL. :ha:

 

[PKevman]

In opposing Ron Paul as ferociously as you do, I hope you'll admit that Ron Paul would never think of aborting a baby.

I oppose any and all candidates who would compromise on murdering innocent babies. Ron Paul happens to be the one up for discussion right now.

 

[PKevman]

Of COURSE I agree that abortion is murder. Do you agree that not every person in the world has a right to punish abortionists? (If you want to say that every person who knows that his neighbor has killed a baby should take God's Law into his own hands and execute Godly punishments on his neighbor, and that's why AlanKeyes should do the same, then I'll respect you for being intellectually consistent. Otherwise, I'm going to assume you don't really want to engage in a serious discussion, but are just a blowhard.)

I've never advocated any form of vigilante behavior. It is not for individuals to take the law into their own hands. This is government's responsibility. God called for the death penalty for murder. This is not a command that He rescinded for the present time period that we are in. But our government is soft on murder. So we need to use every bit of influence that we have, and every bit of voice that we have to push for candidates to be elected who will not allow "Do not murder" to be compromised in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Delmar]

Yep you just proved yourself to be a total looney and unworthy to discuss anything with. :chuckle:

The problem you have is that there are many people that have seen myself and Lighthouse in the same room together. Some of them right here on TOL. :ha:

I have seen the two of you in the same room. More importantly I have seen each of you when the other was nowhere in sight! A really tough trick to pull off if you were the same person. Also Pastor Kevin is taller, I think.

 

[Vine&FigTree]

Alan Keyes and Ron Paul are equally opposed to abortion. Ron Paul will keep his oath to abide by the Constitution. Alan Keyes (if we're to judge him by those who defend him) would violate his oath, annul the Constitution, and usurp the functions of the state legislatures by imposing anti-abortion laws on the states through the Executive Branch of the federal government.

If I have my choice between two anti-abortion candidates, one who will work to shrink the size and power of the federal government, the other who will work to expand it, I don't even have to think twice.

Abortion wouldn't be legal in 50 states if we had people in the federal government who kept their oath to support the Constitution. We need to bind the federal government down with the chains of the Constitution (to quote Jefferson), so it isn't forcing states to legalize abortion, and forcing local school districts to teach atheism, homosexuality, etc. etc., which is creating a culture which will not only kill millions of babies, but millions of eldery, millions of handicapped, etc. Giving a "conservative" the right to convert the Presidency into a dictatorship is not the answer.

Contrary to Presidents who talk about being pro-life (like Dubya), Ron Paul is a strict constitutionalist who would never appoint a Samuel Alito or any other Judge who puts Supreme Court decisions like Roe v. Wade ahead of the Constitution.

I haven't read anything by any Keyes supporter which makes me think this position has been "completely destroyed." And it's hard for me to imagine a real pastor spending his Sunday responding to the points I've raised with nothing more substantive than "looneytunes" and other name-calling.

 

[Lighthouse]

I have seen the two of you in the same room. More importantly I have seen each of you when the other was nowhere in sight! A really tough trick to pull off if you were the same person. Also Pastor Kevin is taller, I think.

Yes, he is.

 

[Granite]

Keyes is a waste of time. Guy's in love with the sound of his own voice.