AlanKeyes.com AmericanRightToLife.org

[CRASH]

Jo Scott does great work to stop abortion, and lousy work at political commentary. To say Ron Paul is "anti-Christian" is a violation of the Ninth Commandment.
Just because I join the Constitution in opposing the idea that the federal government should execute drunkards, doesn't mean I'm "pro-choice" on intoxication (Ephesians 5:18), it just means I'm pro-Constitution. Anyone who takes a solemn oath to defend the Constitution can't do "anything he can to stop abortion." He can only do the things the Constitution authorizes him to do -- unless he intends on taking the Lord's name in vain and violating his oath to support the Constitution.

No it's not.:devil:
Answer my other post and we will find out how good your foundation is.:wazzup:

 

[Lighthouse]

Making an oath on the Constitution, in God's name, is taking God's name in vain to begin with.

And how is calling someone anti-Christian against the ninth commandment?

 

[Vine&FigTree]

Lets give you a simple test;
Would it be okay to break an oath to the constitution to stop the murder of millions?
Or would it be better to not break the oath and let the genocide continue?

It would be better to join Jo Scott in stopping the genocide than it would be to take the Lord's Name in vain and break an oath. There are lots of ways 200 million Americans who call themselves Christians can end abortion. No need to run for President and start violating the Constitution.

To say "I want to stop abortion, so I'm running for President," is as dumb as saying "I want to wear all those macho shoulder pads and score the winning touchdown, so I'm trying out for the Los Angeles Lakers." Alan Keyes doesn't understand that. Ron Paul does. I'm not voting for Ron Paul in order to stop abortion, I'm voting for him to cut the federal tyranny back to Constitutional limits.

There are lots of problems that need to be solved; voting for someone for President is not the best way to solve all of them.

 

[Vine&FigTree]

Making an oath on the Constitution, in God's name, is taking God's name in vain to begin with.

So you're an anabaptist? No taking of oaths, no serving on a jury? As Alan Keyes once noted:

And it's amazing, we seem to forget the very word "jury" comes from the Latin jurare, meaning, "to swear; to take an oath."

Alan Keyes, if elected, is going to put his hand on a Bible and swear an oath to "support the Constitution," ending with the words, "so help me God." Would you vote for a man whose very first act is taking the Lord's Name in vain?

And how is calling someone anti-Christian against the ninth commandment?

Not calling "someone," but calling a good Christian like Ron Paul "anti-Christian" is bearing false witness against one's neighbor. And calling a brother in Christ a "moron" is beneath Jo Scott's dignity.

As Alan Keyes put it:

The literal meaning of the word "verdict," by the way, is "a true saying." Verus dictum, a true saying.

Jo Scott (if you're quoting her correctly) has rendered an unGodly verdict on Ron Paul.

 

[Lighthouse]

So you're an anabaptist? No taking of oaths, no serving on a jury? As Alan Keyes once noted: Alan Keyes, if elected, is going to put his hand on a Bible and swear an oath to "support the Constitution," ending with the words, "so help me God." Would you vote for a man whose very first act is taking the Lord's Name in vain?Not calling "someone," but calling a good Christian like Ron Paul "anti-Christian" is bearing false witness against one's neighbor. And calling a brother in Christ a "moron" is beneath Jo Scott's dignity.

How is it false witness? Firstly, she's not in court. Secondly, can you prove that Ron Paul is a Christian?

As for the anabaptist question, no. I'm not an anabaptist. But I am against juries. For the same reason I'm against democracy.

If the founders of this country had known how to read their Bibles, they would know that Jesus said that we should not swear oaths. And the President wouldn't be asked to swear one. Especially not on the Bible. Or in God's name.

When did Jo call Ron Paul a moron?

As Alan Keyes put it: Jo Scott (if you're quoting her correctly) has rendered an unGodly verdict on Ron Paul.

First off, I didn't quote Jo. Secondly, if what she said isn't true, then it isn't technically a verdict, is it?

 

[Nick M]

That's just your opinion until you quote the Constitution. Which clause of the federal Constitution gives the federal government the right to compel the states to punish baby-killers? Or anybody, for that matter.

It is called necessary and proper. Our federal government can do almost anything legally if they just write legislation for it. It is almost a secret with the states rights crowd. Democrats use it all the time legally to get what they want. It is about time conservatives did the same, and stopped asking the states to do it.

 

[Granite]

I have a real bad feeling that this election cycle will be the beginning of the end for the pro-life movement in this country.

 

[Nick M]

Who are you voting for Granite? Primary and general elections, with the general being conditionary of course.

 

[Vine&FigTree]

Taking Oaths and Poking out Eyes

Taking Oaths and Poking out Eyes

If the founders of this country had known how to read their Bibles, they would know that Jesus said that we should not swear oaths.

The Founders knew their Bibles a whole lot better than you do. You probably also believe that Jesus commands us to poke our eyes out and cut our hands off. Jesus Himself swore an oath:

But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, "I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!" {64} Jesus said to him, "It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven."

The Apostle Paul swore in God's Name:

Romans 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of His Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers,

Romans 9:1 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit,

2 Corinthians 1:18 But as God is true, our word toward you was not yea and nay.

2 Corinthians 1:23 Moreover I call God for a record upon my soul, that to spare you I came not as yet unto Corinth.

2 Corinthians 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.

Galatians 1:20 (Now concerning the things which I write to you, indeed, before God, I do not lie.)

Ephesians 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

Philippians 1:8 For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 2:5 For neither at any time did we use flattering words, as you know, nor a cloak for covetousness; God is witness.

1 Timothy 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

God swears oaths throughout the Bible. Find out what the Founding Fathers knew here.

 

[Lighthouse]

The Founders knew their Bibles a whole lot better than you do. You probably also believe that Jesus commands us to poke our eyes out and cut our hands off. Jesus Himself swore an oath:The Apostle Paul swore in God's Name:God swears oaths throughout the Bible. Find out what the Founding Fathers knew here.

Being under oath, is not the same as swearing an oath. What they do in courts now, by having people put their hands on the Bible, is swearing an oath. Jesus was not asked to swear an oath. And beside, do you honestly think Jesus would need to swear an oath, in order to tell the truth? He wouldn't lie about who He was, ever.

And nowhere do we see Paul saying anything about swearing an oath.

 

[Vine&FigTree]

The Truth About Oaths

The Truth About Oaths

Being under oath, is not the same as swearing an oath.

Huh? What the heck does that mean? Where did you learn this? Can you quote a single expert in law or theology you backs you up on this?

What they do in courts now, by having people put their hands on the Bible, is swearing an oath.

OK, so you're saying that a witness who is "sworn in" to testify is not "under oath" when he testifies? What the heck does that mean?

Jesus was not asked to swear an oath.

You just don't understand the meaning of the words, Lighthouse. When a civil magistrate says to you, "I adjure you, are you the one?" (Matthew 26:63) he's asking you to answer the question under oath. Alan Keyes would agree with me.

And beside, do you honestly think Jesus would need to swear an oath, in order to tell the truth?

Jesus doesn't "need" to do anything. He answered the question under oath, as required by the high priest:

And the high priest answered and said to Him, "I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!" {64} Jesus said to him, "It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven."

He wouldn't lie about who He was, ever.

Most people who testify under oath "wouldn't lie." Suppose you witnessed a woman killing her baby. Surely you wouldn't refuse to testify under oath if you were in court as a witness against her, and say to the Court, "Hey, I wouldn't lie!"

And nowhere do we see Paul saying anything about swearing an oath.

Obviously all the verses I provided slipped right by you. Paul swore in God's Name on numerous occasions:

Romans 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of His Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers,

Romans 9:1 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit,

2 Corinthians 1:18 But as God is true, our word toward you was not yea and nay.

2 Corinthians 1:23 Moreover I call God for a record upon my soul, that to spare you I came not as yet unto Corinth.

2 Corinthians 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.

Galatians 1:20 (Now concerning the things which I write to you, indeed, before God, I do not lie.)

Ephesians 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

Philippians 1:8 For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 2:5 For neither at any time did we use flattering words, as you know, nor a cloak for covetousness; God is witness.

1 Timothy 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

If I were you, Lighthouse, before I post anything further on this subject and expose yourself to public ridicule, I'd find out what the Bible teaches about oaths (echoed by America's Founding Fathers) by clicking here.

 

[drbrumley]

Being under oath, is not the same as swearing an oath.

Um Lighthouse, for that I am surprised!

 

[Granite]

:doh:

He has really outdone himself this time...

 

[Lighthouse]

Huh? What the heck does that mean? Where did you learn this? Can you quote a single expert in law or theology you backs you up on this?OK, so you're saying that a witness who is "sworn in" to testify is not "under oath" when he testifies?

:doh:

That's not what I said. Jesus did not swear an oath. The high priest said he was holding Jesus under oath, but Jesus never swore one.

If someone swears an oath, they are then under oath. They have put themselves under an oath. Jesus said not to do that.

What the heck does that mean?You just don't understand the meaning of the words, Lighthouse. When a civil magistrate says to you, "I adjure you, are you the one?" (Matthew 26:63) he's asking you to answer the question under oath. Alan Keyes would agree with me.

Did Jesus say, "I swear..?" No. He did not.

Jesus doesn't "need" to do anything. He answered the question under oath, as required by the high priest:Most people who testify under oath "wouldn't lie." Suppose you witnessed a woman killing her baby. Surely you wouldn't refuse to testify under oath if you were in court as a witness against her, and say to the Court, "Hey, I wouldn't lie!"

How stupid are you? The reason to put someone under oath, is so they won't lie. And if they do, they have broken that oath. Jesus did not need to be under an oath to guarantee that He would not lie.

Obviously all the verses I provided slipped right by you. Paul swore in God's Name on numerous occasions:If I were you, Lighthouse, before I post anything further on this subject and expose yourself to public ridicule, I'd find out what the Bible teaches about oaths (echoed by America's Founding Fathers) by clicking here.

Where did Paul say, "I swear, in the name of God..?"

 

[Lighthouse]

Um Lighthouse, for that I am surprised!

If you swear an oath, then you have put yourself under oath. If someone holds you under oath, you have not necessarily sworn an oath. Jesus did not swear an oath. The high priest held him under oath. There's a difference.

 

[Vine&FigTree]

An oath takes many forms

An oath takes many forms

Where did Paul say, "I swear, in the name of God..?"

You should have done some more homework, Lighthouse. If Paul had said, "I swear by the gold of the temple" (Matthew 23:16-17), would that have been an "oath" in your opinion?

Suppose you're in court, and the judge says to you, "Lighthouse, I put You under oath by the living God: tell the court your name. And remember, you're under oath, so don't lie." And you say, "My name is Lighthouse." Now I'm a reporter sitting in court, and I write this down, and the newspaper prints my article under the headline, "Lighthouse swears under oath that his name is Lighthouse." How have I not reported the truth?"

The only way I would be misreporting your action is if you had said to the judge, "Oh no you don't! You're not tricking me! I never swear an oath. Never. At all. I'm going to answer your question, but NOT under oath."

Did Jesus say something like that when the high priest said to Him, "I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!"?

You have said you believe Jesus commands us never to swear an oath. Ever. I'm sure it's based on this passage from the Sermon on the Mount:

33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Imagine Hillary Clinton saying the following. Tell me why you think she is guilty of violating Christ's commandment.

For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of His Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers, and I hope you'll vote for me in the primary. (cp. Romans 1:9 )

I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, that I hope you'll vote for me in the primary. (cp. Romans 9:1)

But as God is true, our word toward you was not yea and nay, but we urged you to come out and vote for me in the primary. (cp. 2 Corinthians 1:18)

Moreover I call God for a record upon my soul, that the reason I didn't come to New Hampshire is because I thought you were tired of hearing me tell you to vote for me in the primary. (cp. 2 Corinthians 1:23)

The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not: your vote is urgently needed in the primary. (cp. 2 Corinthians 11:31)

Now concerning the things which I write to you, indeed, before God, I do not lie: you need to vote for me in the primary. (cp. Galatians 1:20)

This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye don't follow the pattern of many apathetic Americans, but you get out and vote for me in the primary (cp. Ephesians 4:17)

For God is my record, how greatly I long after your vote in the bowels of Jesus Christ, and hope you'll vote for me in the primary. (cp. Philippians 1:8)

For neither at any time did we use flattering words, as you know, nor a cloak for covetousness -- God is witness -- but we told you that you would not be a good American if you didn't vote for me in the primary. (cp. 1 Thessalonians 2:5)

Whereunto I was the First Lady, and then elected Senator from New York, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not) a leader of a new American consciousness of equality and compassion. (cp. 1 Timothy 2:7)

Tell me why Hillary Clinton would not be violating Jesus' command against swearing oaths by saying those things. Then tell my why the Apostle Paul was not swearing an oath when he said the things I've quoted him saying.

You say Jesus didn't swear an oath because He didn't NEED to. So did GOD "need" to take an oath? Because God has sworn an oath many times:

Genesis 22:15-17 Then the Angel of the LORD called to Abraham a second time out of heaven, {16} and said: "By Myself I have sworn, says the LORD, because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son; {17} "blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies.

Psalm 89:35 Once I have sworn by My holiness; I will not lie to David:

Psalm 95:11 So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest.'"

Psalm 105:9 The covenant which He made with Abraham, And His oath to Isaac,

Psalm 132:11 The LORD has sworn in truth to David; He will not turn from it: "I will set upon your throne the fruit of your body.

Isaiah 14:24 The LORD of hosts has sworn, saying, "Surely, as I have thought, so it shall come to pass, And as I have purposed, so it shall stand:

Isaiah 45:23 I have sworn by Myself; The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, And shall not return, That to Me every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall take an oath.

Isaiah 49:18 Lift up your eyes, look around and see; All these gather together and come to you. As I live," says the LORD, "You shall surely clothe yourselves with them all as an ornament, And bind them on you as a bride does.

Jeremiah 11:5 "that I may establish the oath which I have sworn to your fathers, to give them 'a land flowing with milk and honey,' as it is this day." ' " And I answered and said, "So be it, LORD."

Jeremiah 22:5 "But if you will not hear these words, I swear by Myself," says the LORD, "that this house shall become a desolation."' "

Jeremiah 49:13 "For I have sworn by Myself," says the LORD, "that Bozrah shall become a desolation, a reproach, a waste, and a curse. And all its cities shall be perpetual wastes."

Jeremiah 51:14 The LORD of hosts has sworn by Himself: "Surely I will fill you with men, as with locusts, And they shall lift up a shout against you."

Luke 1:73 The oath which He swore to our father Abraham:

Hebrews 3:11,18 So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest.'" {18} And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey?

Hebrews 4:3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest,' " although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Hebrews 6:13-14,17 For when God made a promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, 14 saying, "Surely blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply you." {17} Thus God, determining to show more abundantly to the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath,

Hebrews 7:21,28 (for they have become priests without an oath, but He with an oath by Him who said to Him: "The LORD has sworn And will not relent, 'You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek'"), {28} For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever.

Revelation 10:5-6 The angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land raised up his hand to heaven {6} and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the things that are in it, the earth and the things that are in it, and the sea and the things that are in it, that there should be delay no longer,

Are you saying that the author of these verses was mistaken about God swearing an oath because the writer failed to recognize that God never lies and doesn't need to swear an oath? If God swears an oath, isn't it possible that Jesus had no problem swearing an oath that He was the Christ, the Son of God?

Do you also believe that Jesus commands us to cut our hands off and poke our eyes out? (Read more)

In Matthew 6:6 Jesus said,
But whenever you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

Have you ever prayed in the presence of other people? Did you violate Jesus' command by doing so?

Do you understand the meaning of the word "hyperbole?"

 

[Lighthouse]

You should have done some more homework, Lighthouse. If Paul had said, "I swear by the gold of the temple" (Matthew 23:16-17), would that have been an "oath" in your opinion?

Yes. Why? None of those quotes you posted have Paul swearing on anything.

Suppose you're in court, and the judge says to you, "Lighthouse, I put You under oath by the living God: tell the court your name. And remember, you're under oath, so don't lie." And you say, "My name is Lighthouse." Now I'm a reporter sitting in court, and I write this down, and the newspaper prints my article under the headline, "Lighthouse swears under oath that his name is Lighthouse." How have I not reported the truth?"

I didn't swear. And, in fact, if that were the case, I would have lied. My name isn't Lighthouse. That's just my TOL user name.

The only way I would be misreporting your action is if you had said to the judge, "Oh no you don't! You're not tricking me! I never swear an oath. Never. At all. I'm going to answer your question, but NOT under oath."

And that is exactly what I would do. Just to bug you.

Did Jesus say something like that when the high priest said to Him, "I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!"?

Nope.

You have said you believe Jesus commands us never to swear an oath. Ever. I'm sure it's based on this passage from the Sermon on the Mount:Imagine Hillary Clinton saying the following. Tell me why you think she is guilty of violating Christ's commandment.

Tell me why Hillary Clinton would not be violating Jesus' command against swearing oaths by saying those things. Then tell my why the Apostle Paul was not swearing an oath when he said the things I've quoted him saying.

:vomit:

Hillary? That woman is one of the most Godless public figures in this country. What is wrong with you.

And not once was an oath sworn in any of those statements.

You say Jesus didn't swear an oath because He didn't NEED to. So did GOD "need" to take an oath? Because God has sworn an oath many times:Are you saying that the author of these verses was mistaken about God swearing an oath because the writer failed to recognize that God never lies and doesn't need to swear an oath? If God swears an oath, isn't it possible that Jesus had no problem swearing an oath that He was the Christ, the Son of God?

Where did God swear an oath?

Do you also believe that Jesus commands us to cut our hands off and poke our eyes out? (Read more)

Jesus was making a comparison. He was pretty much saying the same things Paul wrote about kicking certain people out of churches, and not even eating with them, and such.

In Matthew 6:6 Jesus said,
But whenever you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

Have you ever prayed in the presence of other people? Did you violate Jesus' command by doing so?

Only if they were in the room with me.

Do you understand the meaning of the word "hyperbole?"

:mock:Vine&FigTree

 

[Vine&FigTree]

None of those quotes you posted have Paul swearing on anything.

And not once was an oath sworn in any of those statements.

Where did God swear an oath?

Well, I gave it my best shot. I may have wrongly assumed you were a Bible-believing Christian. Maybe when you get out of your teen age years you'll see that all the verses I quoted were oaths. Every one.

 

[PKevman]

Well, I gave it my best shot. I may have wrongly assumed you were a Bible-believing Christian. Maybe when you get out of your teen age years you'll see that all the verses I quoted were oaths. Every one.

Fyi-Lighthouse isn't a teenager.

 

[PKevman]

This whole debate about oaths is irrelevant to the big picture: Millions of innocent babies are being slaughtered mercilessly. We need to do something about that instead of debating what is and isn't an oath.