Adam and or Eve had all the viruses.

[Halster]

It’s wild how differently people see these verses. Some read them literally, while others dig for hidden meanings. The stone vs. bread analogy is a good reminder that sometimes what we think we want isn’t what’s best for us.

 

[SwordOfTruth]

Says the hypocrite who showed up here to tell us all that he, all by himself, figured out what the corrupted bible actually is trying to teach

Pretty sure I never said this. My journey has spanned many years, probably 15-20yrs purely on this particular leg of discovery and searching once freed from religious indoctrination. It's been a Hansel and Gretal trail of breadcrumbs, step by step from one thing leading to another and eventually to a realistion of what certain things in the Bible are saying. Where that trail came from I honestly can not say, whether there is one or more entities helping spread that trail I can not say. I've learned and read since that some refer to it as Ariandne's Thread (taken from the Greek mythology of course) and that this thread has been out there for a long time waiting for anyone to stumble across it and pick it up and start following it. So do please understand there's no arrogance in my stance here. I'm not special, I'm just one more person who picked up the thread and followed it. I would add that had I not been able to be wholly honest with myself and challenge all the Biblical religious indoctrination that I'd previously been subjected to, I could never have found this thread. Indoctrination and holding tight to fundamentalist dogma simply prevents you searching in other directions.

all while blanking out the fact that if whole sections of the bible are just allegory that is there to teach us this secret wisdom that he's been able to discern then it isn't corrupted at all but only written in such a way as only the super wise can figure it out.

I don't know about "super wise" but yes, it seems clearly the secrets have been put there in such a way that the ordinary reader won't see or understand them. Jesus himself told his disciples that it was given to them to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but it was not given to everyone else. Those mysteries have over the past 2000 years spread to others, spread far and wide. You don't have to be super wise but i do think you have to have an open mind.

 

[SwordOfTruth]

It’s wild how differently people see these verses. Some read them literally, while others dig for hidden meanings. The stone vs. bread analogy is a good reminder that sometimes what we think we want isn’t what’s best for us.

I take it you don't understand what is meant by the "stone"?

 

[Clete]

Pretty sure I never said this. My journey has spanned many years, probably 15-20yrs purely on this particular leg of discovery and searching once freed from religious indoctrination. It's been a Hansel and Gretal trail of breadcrumbs, step by step from one thing leading to another and eventually to a realistion of what certain things in the Bible are saying. Where that trail came from I honestly can not say, whether there is one or more entities helping spread that trail I can not say. I've learned and read since that some refer to it as Ariandne's Thread (taken from the Greek mythology of course) and that this thread has been out there for a long time waiting for anyone to stumble across it and pick it up and start following it. So do please understand there's no arrogance in my stance here. I'm not special, I'm just one more person who picked up the thread and followed it. I would add that had I not been able to be wholly honest with myself and challenge all the Biblical religious indoctrination that I'd previously been subjected to, I could never have found this thread. Indoctrination and holding tight to fundamentalist dogma simply prevents you searching in other directions.




I don't know about "super wise" but yes, it seems clearly the secrets have been put there in such a way that the ordinary reader won't see or understand them. Jesus himself told his disciples that it was given to them to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but it was not given to everyone else. Those mysteries have over the past 2000 years spread to others, spread far and wide. You don't have to be super wise but i do think you have to have an open mind.

So, you start by denying that you said it and then you say it again!

Just exactly who is it that you're trying to fool here?

If you think you've discovered something important then why do you not discuss it with whomever it is you happen to be discussing it with?
Why insist on basing it on a rejection of doctrines that the people you've engaged do not believe?
If those premises MUST be taken as true in order for your miracle doctrine to be arrived at then why do you reject them?
If you reject them then why do you insist the we aren't allowed to reject them?
If we are allowed to reject them then why aren't the conclusions we've reached as a result of rejecting them at least potentially as valid as any conclusion you've reached by having also rejected them?

In other words, why insist on debating Calvin? Why not debate us?

The biblical fact is that God IS NOT omniscient, neither does He have exhaustive foreknowledge of the future, which means that He hasn't predestined the future either.

So, there goes you're entire premise for any need to remove the literal meaning of Genesis, at least as you have so far described. This rejection of the literal meaning of Genesis seems to be the only premise for your entire "theological" worldview. Why then shouldn't I reject your worldview as false on the basis of a false premise?




Prediction: SoT will not answer me.

 

[SwordOfTruth]

Apologies for not responding to every sentence, there's just too much in your post and it doesn't facilitate easy forum reading and following.

You're an intelligent guy. You know God isn't a sadist, you know He wouldn't hold people against their will, and that the Tree, while literal, was an allegory for something else, a way out of His presence.

I know only what I experience and once you shed religious indoctrination then there is little choice but to assess the popular conception of "God" with objective reasoning and critical thinking. If "God" exists in the sense that religion or the Bible suggests, then he/she/it is one entity among many other entities and is an entity that wants everyone to worship him rather than any of the others.

There were people who worshipped Hitler. Once they're in such a mindset then it's almost impossible to break them free from it. If you try and cite any attrocities he perpetrated they will make excuses for it. The same happens with religious fanatics. They will make all manner of excuses for their "God".

Let's take a simple example. Jimmy Saville. A sexual predator who sexually abused who knows how many poor helpless children.

Let's think this through in real terms. Let's say you are a father and you have a daughter of say 5 yrs age. You come home from work one day and find that an old sexual predator is abusing your 5yr old child in the bedroom. What do you do? There are various choices.

1. You can be a total pr*ck and stand there, do nothing and say "well, it's all free will, it's all part of some glorious master plan which I'm not worthy to know or understand so let him get on with it"

2. You can run away and let the sexual abuse continue and go find someone else to ask to intervene on your behalf

3. You can tackle the predator straight away, and do whatever it takes to get him off your daughter and see that he is punished for his crime.


Now when we think about love, real parental love, I submit that only option 3 is an appropriate response. If you have the POWER to prevent the abuse then love for your daughter demands that you ACT to stop it.

Here's where the defacto concept of "God" falls apart for me. The peddled concept is a God that is BOTH all-powerful and all-loving.

But no loving entity would sit by and watch an innocent child be sexually abused if they had the power to stop it or prevent it in the first place. It's really that simple, but I guess not to fundamentalists. For those whose minds are closed, any excuse will do to pardon God's inaction and permit of the sexual abuse of minors who can not protect themselves as well as a myriad of other worldly attrocities. Any entity who desires to be worshipped must, at least for me, demonstrate the kind of behaviours and actions that are worthy or worship. If we fail to hold such a standard for ourselves then we may just as well worship and adore Hitler or any other would be king.

No, Jesus was not referring to red and white blood cells.

Correct

He was referring to the Passover, because He IS the Passover Lamb, the Lamb slain.

I disagree

He commanded His disciples to eat and drink the bread and wine, which represented His body and His blood, and His blood is a sign to God to pass over anyone covered in it, because they have placed their trust in God.

Again I disagree. This is just religious dogma. For goodness sake, if God is all-powerful and all-knowing why the hell would he need any blood to be a signpost of who is who? Surely God already knows who is who. He knows all hearts and minds according to the Bible. So there's yet another Bible story that, if taken literally makes no sense whatsoever and paints God as a rather impotent unknowing entity. So something is obviously off there. Either the stories aren't literal or the concept of God is wrong or indeed the BIble text is just fanciful invention.

There is much symbolism in the Bible, but that doesn't mean that the Bible is not to be taken literally, or that there is some hidden meaning (not that there isn't hidden meaning in some places) within it that only people such as yourself have discovered.

Sure but the discernment of which is which is where the problem lies. If one takes a rigid fundamental position then it becomes hard if not impossible to consider any allegorical interpretation. Let's tease this out. Can you give an example of the actual Bible text that is purely allegorical? And by this I mean the Bible words themselves, not what the Bible says Jesus says being allegorical.

 

[SwordOfTruth]

In other words, why insist on debating Calvin? Why not debate us?

Where does this obsession with Calvinism come from? I'm not interested in it. I don't even know what Calvinists believe. Nor do I care TBH.

The biblical fact is that God IS NOT omniscient, neither does He have exhaustive foreknowledge of the future, which means that He hasn't predestined the future either.

I think that's a view that many Christians would disagree with but I appreciate now that this isn't a concern for "Open Theists".
And presumably you're aware of the many Bible verses that suggest God knows all, hearts and minds, etc etc but you have long since debated such topics and have all your ducks lined up to be able to refute such verses. Good for you.

So, there goes you're entire premise for any need to remove the literal meaning of Genesis, at least as you have so far described. This rejection of the literal meaning of Genesis seems to be the only premise for your entire "theological" worldview. Why then shouldn't I reject your worldview as false on the basis of a false premise?

It's not just Genesis. The Bible is riddled with examples elsewhere which relate the same secret in allegorical terminology. There are quotes of Jesus (as related in the Bible) that are imo talking about the same thing and passages all over to be found.

You're free to believe what you will and to reject whatever you will, same as anyone else. I have no problem if you're happy in your intellectual Theist position.

 

[Clete]

Where does this obsession with Calvinism come from? I'm not interested in it. I don't even know what Calvinists believe. Nor do I care TBH.

You certainly do seem to care about it because you won't let us say that he was wrong!

The objections you raise are only true from within a Calvinistic paradigm. When we say that we disagree with a particular premise, your response is,

​

"So I'm afraid I can't accept your "excuse" that God's Omniscience isn't really omniscience, and that he just knows a lot of stuff but not everything. No that's absolutely not what the Bible says nor what the Churches preach to the subdued flocks."​

Except that it is precisely what the bible says, you just need it to say what CALVIN said it says so that you can have your excuse to turn Genesis into a gigantic allegory. Without Calvinist doctrine being in the bible, you've got nothing!

I think that's a view that many Christians would disagree with but I appreciate now that this isn't a concern for "Open Theists".

It happens to be the central doctrine upon which this website was created to promote and defend both biblically and rationally.

And presumably you're aware of the many Bible verses that suggest God knows all, hearts and minds, etc etc but you have long since debated such topics and have all your ducks lined up to be able to refute such verses. Good for you.

There are no such verses.

Any that you think exist require you to read omniscience into them. We aren't saying that God doesn't know most everything but merely that the doctrine of omniscience is an overstatement of the truth. God knows what He wants to know of that information that is knowable. That is as far as the biblical material will support.

It's not just Genesis. The Bible is riddled with examples elsewhere which relate the same secret in allegorical terminology.

Nonsense.

There are quotes of Jesus (as related in the Bible) that are imo talking about the same thing and passages all over to be found.

I couldn't care less about your opinions. I'm interested in rational arguments.

You're free to believe what you will and to reject whatever you will, same as anyone else. I have no problem if you're happy in your intellectual Theist position.

Well, thank you so much for permission to ignore your mindlessness.

Do you want to make an argument and present to us in some intelligent manner what this secret wisdom is and how you came to know it or is naked assertions and this "in my opinion" crap all you've got?

 

[SwordOfTruth]

You certainly do seem to care about it because you won't let us say that he was wrong!

What the hell are your gibbering on about man?! You can say what you like, I haven't attempted to stop you at any point.

The objections you raise are only true from within a Calvinistic paradigm. When we say that we disagree with a particular premise, your response is,

​

"So I'm afraid I can't accept your "excuse" that God's Omniscience isn't really omniscience, and that he just knows a lot of stuff but not everything. No that's absolutely not what the Bible says nor what the Churches preach to the subdued flocks."​

Except that it is precisely what the bible says, you just need it to say what CALVIN said it says so that you can have your excuse to turn Genesis into a gigantic allegory. Without Calvinist doctrine being in the bible, you've got nothing!

Wow this really is an obsession. This is like the blinkered red mist approach Americans have with Democrat vs Republican.
Let me be 100% clear once again. I am not a Calvanist. In fact I've just had to look up Calvanism because of your obsession with it and learn what Calvin believed. It's a nonsense. The notion that God is only interested in a select few and that Jesus only died for those select few. Nonsense.
But then I'm only saying this as "outsider" looking in on people's beliefs that are based on the Bible and its stories. The Calvin world makes no sense but then neither do any of the other worlds imho.

I don't need any "excuse" to interpret Genesis as I do. I am free to make that interpretation and it's one that has been somehow revealed to me over the years. I see in Genesis and in other parts of the Bible references to certain esoteric matters. I see similar references in other works as I have mentioned and equally in 100s of works, texts, treatises of various philosophers and sages. Really no need to get uppity about that.

It happens to be the central doctrine upon which this website was created to promote and defend both biblically and rationally.

Fair enough. It's not my intention to challenge or tear down any temples here. I get the feeling that I've inadvertently stumbled into some kind of boxing ring which sees people of differing Biblical beliefs slog it out rather vehemently on a regular basis. Perhaps that explains the "dialed up to 10" levels of animosity and insults that have been thrown almost immediately I arrived. It would be worth stepping back at some point and appraising how that looks from outsider's perspective. Do you think that paints a good picture of Christianity? Brotherly love and compassion?

There are no such verses.

Happy for you to believe this. I don't particularly care either way, I was just suggesting that lots of so-called Christians believe there are. I'm not one of them either way so it's no skin off my back.

Nonsense.

So you don't believe that there are secrets hidden in the Bible allegories and you dismiss them out of hand even without being told what they are!
That's a very closed mind position to take. How can you ever learn anything if your opening gambit is that everything you don't currently know about is nonsense?

I couldn't care less about your opinions. I'm interested in rational arguments.

Saying "nonsense" isn't a rational argument.

Well, thank you so much for permission to ignore your mindlessness.

Again the insults. Did I somehow wrong you in a previous life? Are you not capable of adult discourse without resorting to insults?

Do you want to make an argument and present to us in some intelligent manner what this secret wisdom is and how you came to know it or is naked assertions and this "in my opinion" crap all you've got?

When you put it like that, I guess I'm minded not to want to share the secrets with you as your mind is neither open to anything new that you don't already know, your ego is clearly currently ruling your life and thus obstructiing you and really I don't need to as you highlighted earlier "cast pearls" before those who clearly have no interest. The mysteries of the kingdom are not for you I guess.

 

[Clete]

What the hell are your gibbering on about man?! You can say what you like, I haven't attempted to stop you at any point.



Wow this really is an obsession. This is like the blinkered red mist approach Americans have with Democrat vs Republican.
Let me be 100% clear once again. I am not a Calvanist.

No one has said that you are a Calvinist.

Are you stupid or what?

Read this next bit SLOWLY. Go one single word at a time and make sure you understand each word before proceeding to the next, okay?

Ready?


The PREMISE upon which you are basing your rejecting the plain reading of Genesis is a CALVINIST PREMISE!!!!!!!!!!

If that premise is false, then so is your reasoning behind rejecting the plain reading of Genesis!

The fact that you don't believe that Calvinist doctrines about God are actually true, argues AGAINST you!

In fact I've just had to look up Calvanism because of your obsession with it and learn what Calvin believed. It's a nonsense. The notion that God is only interested in a select few and that Jesus only died for those select few. Nonsense.
But then I'm only saying this as "outsider" looking in on people's beliefs that are based on the Bible and its stories. The Calvin world makes no sense but then neither do any of the other worlds imho.

You might actually be stupid. There was no need to look it up because I had just told you the specific doctrines that are in the way here.

GOD IS NOT OMNISCIENT!!!

The bible DOES NOT teach that He is, but YOU want to insist that the Calvinists are right and that the bible does teach that He is omniscient.

It's literally like talking to a child.

I don't need any "excuse" to interpret Genesis as I do.

You're the one who made the argument SoT!

I am free to make that interpretation and it's one that has been somehow revealed to me over the years. I see in Genesis and in other parts of the Bible references to certain esoteric matters. I see similar references in other works as I have mentioned and equally in 100s of works, texts, treatises of various philosophers and sages. Really no need to get uppity about that.

You're the one claiming to have independantly figured out the secret of the Universe and so please don't talk to me about getting "uppity".

Fair enough. It's not my intention to challenge or tear down any temples here. I get the feeling that I've inadvertently stumbled into some kind of boxing ring which sees people of differing Biblical beliefs slog it out rather vehemently on a regular basis. Perhaps that explains the "dialed up to 10" levels of animosity and insults that have been thrown almost immediately I arrived. It would be worth stepping back at some point and appraising how that looks from outsider's perspective. Do you think that paints a good picture of Christianity? Brotherly love and compassion?

Brotherly love does not include suffering fools who show up pretending to be among the wisest human beings to have graced the planet Earth but who seem incapable of following their own logic past the tip of their nose.

Happy for you to believe this. I don't particularly care either way, I was just suggesting that lots of so-called Christians believe there are. I'm not one of them either way so it's no skin off my back.

It isn't a matter of opinion.

So you don't believe that there are secrets hidden in the Bible allegories and you dismiss them out of hand even without being told what they are!

I dismiss you out of hand because you're a fool who will string this along for a century before barfing up one single syllable of this "secret".

That's a very closed mind position to take. How can you ever learn anything if your opening gambit is that everything you don't currently know about is nonsense?

It is only the totally unsupported and unsupportable gibberish from ego inflated fools that I dismiss as nonsense.

Saying "nonsense" isn't a rational argument.

It wasn't intended to be.

Again the insults. Did I somehow wrong you in a previous life? Are you not capable of adult discourse without resorting to insults?

I do not do adult discourse with fools. They are incapable of it and pretending otherwise feeds their delusions.

When you put it like that, I guess I'm minded not to want to share the secrets with you as your mind is neither open to anything new that you don't already know, your ego is clearly currently ruling your life and thus obstructiing you and really I don't need to as you highlighted earlier "cast pearls" before those who clearly have no interest. The mysteries of the kingdom are not for you I guess.

LOL!!!

Of course they aren't!

You're so transparently a con artist it's literally laughable.

 

[SwordOfTruth]

The PREMISE upon which you are basing your rejecting the plain reading of Genesis is a CALVINIST PREMISE!!!!!!!!!!

If that premise is false, then so is your reasoning behind rejecting the plain reading of Genesis!

No I'm sorry you are allowing your jaded prejudices to try and craft any discussion towards one of Calvinism and it's just not going to fly.

I don't give a flying fig whether my views and beliefs are the same as anyone elses. My premise for rejecting a literal reading of Genesis is completely based upon an understanding of the allegorical terms used within it and upon other references to teh same allegorical terms found elsewhere in the Bible as well as the same allegorical terms being found in other works such as those I have already cited.

I don't see what part of that is Calvinist. In fact let's put this to bed right now.

Please cite a source reference regarding Calvinism that describes Calvinism believing in an allegorical interpretation of parts of Genesis.

It's literally like talking to a child.

It's more like conversing with a teenager who can't control his emotions or temper and thinks that insults and derision somehow gain credibility in debate. You claim to be 55 in your profile. I don't believe it for one second.

You're the one claiming to have independantly figured out the secret of the Universe and so please don't talk to me about getting "uppity".

No I pretty clearly said I followed a trail of breadcrumbs, Ariandne's Thread and so haven't remotely claimed to have independently figured out anything. The red mist is obstructing both your reading and comprehension.

Brotherly love does not include suffering fools who show up pretending to be among the wisest human beings to have graced the planet Earth but who seem incapable of following their own logic past the tip of their nose.

I haven't claimed to be wise, that's another of your made-up fallacies needed to construct a false position.

It isn't a matter of opinion.

I don't care Clete, you can believe what you want about whether there is a God and whether that God is omniscient. So can every other human on earth. I don't believe what you believe simple as, nor do I believe what the vast majority of Christians believe. I'm happy for you to believe whatever you want, you have your own journey to make and you are where you are on that journey as is everyone else.

I dismiss you out of hand because you're a fool who will string this along for a century before barfing up one single syllable of this "secret".

Then stop posting (at least in reply to me). Dismiss me properly or not at all. We have nothing to gain from further exchange. Your mind is closed.

 

[Clete]

No I'm sorry you are allowing your jaded prejudices to try and craft any discussion towards one of Calvinism and it's just not going to fly.

Silly

Drop the term Calvinism! I don't care. That's what it is but a fart still stinks just as badly whether you call it "Fart" or not.

I don't give a flying fig whether my views and beliefs are the same as anyone elses.

Neither do I. That isn't the point. The point is that these doctrines have an origin and are commonly referred to in certain ways. Your ignorance isn't my problem.

My premise for rejecting a literal reading of Genesis is completely based upon an understanding of the allegorical terms used within it and upon other references to teh same allegorical terms found elsewhere in the Bible as well as the same allegorical terms being found in other works such as those I have already cited.

Circular stupidity. Your own posts that articulate your premises are still right here for the entire world to read, ToS!

If God isn't omniscient then your objections about how Genesis doesn't make sense when taken to mean what it actually says goes away.

I don't see what part of that is Calvinist. In fact let's put this to bed right now.


Please cite a source reference regarding Calvinism that describes Calvinism believing in an allegorical interpretation of parts of Genesis.

There isn't one.

Good grief! Are you really this much of an idiot?

It isn't the allegorical stupidity that you're putting forward that's Calvinistic, its the REASON you think that it's necessary to take it as allegory that's Calvinistic!

It's more like conversing with a teenager who can't control his emotions or temper and thinks that insults and derision somehow gain credibility in debate. You claim to be 55 in your profile. I don't believe it for one second.

I'm fully in control of my emotions. I am intentionally ridiculing you because you are a fool and worthy of nothing more dignified. Your every post only furthers the proof of it.

No I pretty clearly said I followed a trail of breadcrumbs, Ariandne's Thread and so haven't remotely claimed to have independently figured out anything. The red mist is obstructing both your reading and comprehension.

YOU followed the crumbs but somehow it was someone else that figured it out for you?

I haven't claimed to be wise, that's another of your made-up fallacies needed to construct a false position.

Your posts are all still here for the entire world to read, moron.

I don't care Clete, you can believe what you want about whether there is a God and whether that God is omniscient. So can every other human on earth. I don't believe what you believe simple as, nor do I believe what the vast majority of Christians believe. I'm happy for you to believe whatever you want, you have your own journey to make and you are where you are on that journey as is everyone else.

It is not a matter of opinion. God is either omniscient or He is not. If He is not then you have no grounds upon which to declare that the story told in Genesis makes no sense and that it must therefore be an allegory.

Then stop posting (at least in reply to me). Dismiss me properly or not at all. We have nothing to gain from further exchange. Your mind is closed.

Your mind is non-existent and I am fully open to rational arguments, which you've neither provided nor are willing to provide. You're a hypocritical fool that I intend to expose until such time as you begin to present something substantive and not hysterically stupid.

 

[SwordOfTruth]

If God isn't omniscient then your objections about how Genesis doesn't make sense when taken to mean what it actually says goes away.

No again you're wrong. The omniscience issue was only raised to show the additional absurdity of an already absurd story. There's plenty of other absurdity if it's taken literally. I've never taken Genesis literally and throughout my entire life the Bible itself has never sat right with me. It was only once I began to see and understand the meaning of the allegories that I had renewed interest in it and searched it properly and thereby found numerous references to the same hidden secret. I went off to look for the same things in other works and was astounded to find them there too.

But let's leave it there. Derisory exchanges are fruitless. If you're not actually going to dismiss me then I will you.

You are dismissed.

 

[Avajs]

SoT, I have neither the time nor the energy to go back through your specific discussion with Clete or others, but in post 112 you mentioned "the same hidden secret". Is there just one hidden secret? And if so, what is it? Bring it to light, thanks

 

[SwordOfTruth]

SoT, I have neither the time nor the energy to go back through your specific discussion with Clete or others, but in post 112 you mentioned "the same hidden secret". Is there just one hidden secret? And if so, what is it? Bring it to light, thanks

Oh I don't doubt there are numerous secrets in the texts but I'm no scholar. The primary secret is that of the Elixir Of Life, the "Tree of Life", Philosopher's Stone, Soma, Ambrosia call it what you will. It has numerous names spanning centuries and civilisations. Pointless dicussing it here though. You would need to first understand the basic terms, processes and expected benefits of this thing before being able to see the numerous references to it in the Bible.

 

[Avajs]

Oh I don't doubt there are numerous secrets in the texts but I'm no scholar. The primary secret is that of the Elixir Of Life, the "Tree of Life", Philosopher's Stone, Soma, Ambrosia call it what you will. It has numerous names spanning centuries and civilisations. Pointless dicussing it here though. You would need to first understand the basic terms, processes and expected benefits of this thing before being able to see the numerous references to it in the Bible.

Ahh, magic. Harry Potter stuff. Sorry, but you lost me. I have enough trouble accepting a literal interpretation of the Bible as most of those her accept. But Kabbalah like mysticism which you seem to put forth is sillier. You are dismissed.

 

[Clete]

No again you're wrong.

That was YOUR argument SoT!!!

That's THE reason everyone started talking about Calvinism!

The omniscience issue was only raised to show the additional absurdity of an already absurd story.

No it wasn't! You are basing your thought process on it. That's the reason you insist that the bible teaches it! If it doesn't teach it, you've lost the only leg this silly "allegory" idea of your has to stand on.

There's plenty of other absurdity if it's taken literally.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

I've never taken Genesis literally and throughout my entire life the Bible itself has never sat right with me.

That's because you've also believe false doctrines that were imported from Greek philosophy by the likes of Augustine of Hippo and that we broadly call today "Calvinism". You dropped the wrong premise!

It was only once I began to see and understand the meaning of the allegories that I had renewed interest in it and searched it properly and thereby found numerous references to the same hidden secret.

Which are?

I went off to look for the same things in other works and was astounded to find them there too.

So you claim, without evidence.

But let's leave it there. Derisory exchanges are fruitless. If you're not actually going to dismiss me then I will you.

You are dismissed.

I dismiss you as a fool. I did that after about two of your posts. You will never post one single syllable of whatever it is this "secret" is on this website. You won't post it in response to me, you won't post it anywhere because there isn't any such thing. The only thing you came here to say was that Genesis isn't telling the truth. That's your whole gig and you were shut down inside of a single day because you wouldn't know a substantive argument if it walked up a slapped you in the face.

 

[SwordOfTruth]

Ahh, magic. Harry Potter stuff. Sorry, but you lost me. I have enough trouble accepting a literal interpretation of the Bible as most of those her accept. But Kabbalah like mysticism which you seem to put forth is sillier. You are dismissed.

Magic? Errr nope. Just the basic processes of Nature nothing more nothing less. So essentially science but science that uses the divine source of life which you perhaps call "God".

It's pretty clear that Jesus had the Stone which is what enabled him to perform amazing things including healings, transmutations and so on.
No magic involved. He taught his disciples how to make and use this thing imho. They kept it secret from ordinary people.

There are numerous processes involved in the creation of this substance, and Jesus refers to one of them in his parables.

The alchemical processes used result in various colour changes seen in the glass flasks used the most important of which are White, Black and Red.
The Black stage is often referred to as The Crow or Raven, allegorically speaking. The White often referred to as the Dove.

The Bible is riddled with references to the Stone, to the benefits it provides, to the colour changes seen during it's creation and much more.

But hey, I'm totally cool with you wanting to dismiss it out of hand. It's all there but it needs eyes to see and ears to hear as Jesus said.

ATB

 

[Avajs]

Magic? Errr nope. Just the basic processes of Nature nothing more nothing less. So essentially science but science that uses the divine source of life which you perhaps call "God".

It's pretty clear that Jesus had the Stone which is what enabled him to perform amazing things including healings, transmutations and so on.
No magic involved. He taught his disciples how to make and use this thing imho. They kept it secret from ordinary people.

There are numerous processes involved in the creation of this substance, and Jesus refers to one of them in his parables.

The alchemical processes used result in various colour changes seen in the glass flasks used the most important of which are White, Black and Red.
The Black stage is often referred to as The Crow or Raven, allegorically speaking. The White often referred to as the Dove.

The Bible is riddled with references to the Stone, to the benefits it provides, to the colour changes seen during it's creation and much more.

But hey, I'm totally cool with you wanting to dismiss it out of hand. It's all there but it needs eyes to see and ears to hear as Jesus said.

ATB

This guy is the bestest. I'll stick with science. But now I am concerned with where the Stone might be? Can we expect a Monty Python movie---the Search for the Stone? a sequel to their Holy Grail movie?? See if you can sell it to Marvel.
Sorry, but I just cannot take you seriously and am surprised that Clete and some others have bothered.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I . . . am surprised that Clete and some others have bothered.

It's because we care about truth.

 

[Right Divider]

The Bible is riddled with references to the Stone, to the benefits it provides, to the colour changes seen during it's creation and much more.

You constantly make CLAIMS, but you never provide a single shred of evidence.

You are like so many here before you... a TOTAL POSER!