Adam and or Eve had all the viruses.

[Clete]

I like that approach also... yet, I'm curious: What do you think was left out about Cain's fear of the previously populated earth? I hope this question won't usurp the thread topic too much.

Previously populated Earth?

Are you just responding to something Ciano said or do you believe that the Earth was populated prior to Adam and Eve being fruitful and multiplying (Genesis 1:28)?

I mean, I know Ciano brought it up, but the way you worded the question makes me wonder whether you accept the premise. Do you?

 

[Ps82]

I didn’t ever claim that. Your mind is excitable, black and white. When editing the scriptures the authors left Cains fear of the previously populated earth in their new records.

Hello Caino. Somehow I think you have a mind that likes to go outside the box of what everyone has said in the past. So, I'm taking a chance to speak with you about some things I see in scripture which would normally blow most people's minds. I'm just saying it to you. You can just say: I don't think like you Ps 82 and move on. I won't be offended. Other can just move on and ignore it.
The Highlights:

• Even before Woman was brought forth Adam was given the authority to name things. IOW, begin creating language. I say he named animals and things and even actions taking place. Carefully watching his vocabulary grow became amazing !!! to me. He started with naming the animals.
• Until the LORD manifested the female, Adam then called her Woman. That was Female's second name but was not to be her last. He explained why he chose the word Wo-man. He said, For she came from out of Man.
• Not long afterward there was a flurry of new words!!! By flurry I mean it was like something major was happening!!! Adam began to describe what he was literally witnessing with new language: Watch closely see what was taking place and what Adam understood and began putting into words about the purpose of humanity.
• Gen. 2: 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
• What do you see, Caino? A man does not become a father nor Woman a mother until the cleave and have a child like them!!! I think Adam witnessed the first birth of another fleshly child.
• What was the sex of that first born? Verse 24 says - a man with Adam and Woman being his parents. This fulfilled the first command God ever gave to male and female in Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them [male/female], and God said unto them, Be fruitful and multiply, and so forth...
• I believe Adam witnessed the process of birth ... put it into words ... and announced his baby boy who was one and the same flesh as his parents.
• What do you think of this Caino?

Now, how might my conclusions fit into your comment: Cains fear of the previously populated earth

• Well, if I am correct that a son was born while in the Garden then how can we know if it happen again and again before they were kicked out. There is a clue that it did happen. Genesis 3:20 Adam called his wife's name [her third name] Eve. [He explains why he renamed her from Woman.] BECAUSE she WAS THE MOTHER of ALL THE LIVING [at that time.] WAS is a past tense verb ... meaning already was something!!! A mother. Of just how many I don't know.
• Now, we go to what happened to those children born in the Garden? How many? Were they all boys. Might any have been daughters?
• We have to go to Genesis 6: 1-7 Watch carefully. God never mentions angels!!!

1 And it came to pass, when men [mankind] began to multiply ... and daughters were born unto them. [Well, this is the first reference to daughters being born. Until that happened only Eve was a daughter of God and the female who was bearing children in the beginning. We know that she and Adam had sons and daughters after they were cast out of the Garden.]
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. [Well, this was something natural for men to do - after all a man should leave his mother and father and cleave unto his wife. But remember angels were not created to bear children. They do not reproduce at all.]
3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, ... [Notice still no mention of angels. It was men who were doing what came naturally in order to reproduce and multiply, but for some reason God was not happy about this.]
4a [These unions produced giants] There were giants in the earth in those days [those days being when SONS OF GOD took WIVES from among the DAUGHTERS OF EARTH. Now her is a clue. These particular son were not to mix with the cast out daughters born to Adam and Eve. Might they have been the sons born unto Adam and Woman ... whose parent WAS THE MOTHER OF ALL THE LIVING?]

4b ... and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same [their male children] became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5 And God saw that the wickedness of MAN was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
It repented the LORD that he had made MAN on the earth, and it grieve him at his heart.
7 And the LORD said, I will destroy MAN whom I have created from the face of the earth: both MAN, and beast ...etc ...

Do you see why God was angry only with MAN?

• The sons of God left their original estate [with him] and chose to go down to earth to find wives. Even though their sons became men of renown still their were problems.
• The hearts of mankind sank into evil continually.

My CONCLUSION: These sons of God were sons born of Adam and Woman in the Garden who displeased God and then the whole lot of humanity sank to depths of sin until God finally wanted to destroy mankind. These sons of God and their wives and children became the other people whom Cain feared in his day would harm him for killing his brother. No angels involved. I came to this conclusion after studying Ps 82 where I learned that God called both angels and men - Son of God. In Gen.6 God was talking about MANKIND.

 

[7djengo7]

Hello Caino.

He's neither going to see, nor respond to your post if you do not use the tag function: @Caino. Then again, he's not going to even if you use it.

 

[7djengo7]

No angels involved.

I'm actually in agreement with you on that point concerning Genesis 6. Though I used to be somewhat intrigued by the claim that fallen angels married women, along with some of its trappings, for years I have rejected it.

 

[Right Divider]

Hello Caino.

Caino was banned from this site two and a half years ago.
So you will not be getting any response from him.

 

[Right Divider]

The Highlights:

• Even before Woman was brought forth Adam was given the authority to name things. IOW, begin creating language. I say he named animals and things and even actions taking place. Carefully watching his vocabulary grow became amazing !!! to me. He started with naming the animals.

What makes you think that "Adam created language"?
What makes you think that God did not give this to Adam?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Caino was banned from this site two and a half years ago.
So you will not be getting any response from him.

Has it really been that long?!

Man how time flies...

 

[JudgeRightly]

What makes you think that "Adam created language"?
What makes you think that God did not give this to Adam?

Exactly. The human brain is wired for language. It didn't just "happen."

 

[Right Divider]

Has it really been that long?!

Man how time flies...

May 3rd, 2022 was his last appearance.

 

[Ps82]

Luke 20:34 Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

I agree sons of God refer to those who have been saved and this includes the resurrection.

Yet, keep in mind God said in Psalm 82:6
I HAVE SAID [past tense] "Ye are gods [speaking to Satan and the angels], and all of you [implies a plurality] ARE [present tense] children of the most High."

The break down... angels were called 'gods,' IOW, super-natural sentient beings ... different from humanity.
Yet, when God used the phrase "all of you are" MY children, he is speaking to angels and mankind.

How do I know this? Because I figured out the antecedents of YE and YOU from the context in the chapter.

How are angels and mankind God's children? He was their originator of life and created them to be such. Therefore, Adam and his descendants are children of God as well as angels.

But mankind made a big mistake because Woman wanted to be like the gods/angels.
After the Fall she and Adam were cast out and became like unto orphans ... Therefore, when man's great accuser, Satan, described them as being poor, fatherless, afflicted and needy persons it was a good assessment of their state of existence. This is probably why the NT term adoption came into use.

After being excommunicated from the Garden the children of Adam and Eve became "sons of man". But this fact does not rule out that there were other children of the most high born of Adam and Woman in the Garden who did not sin and were not thrown out but rather chose to leave their first estate/dwelling place to find wives and have children. After all, God had purposed them for that.

Think about this: Jesus was called a son of man [for he was born of Mary with mortal flesh], but he was also called a Son of God because he was born of the Spirit and never sinned. Jesus was both. A very unique individual. Praise our God and Savior.

It's clear in the New Testament that angels are called "sons of God"
It's also clear in Job that angels are called "sons of God"

Agree.

There's several thousands of years of history between Job and the New Testament so I think that if "sons of God" ever meant something akin to "Adams other sons" or "People who lived in the Garden of Eden" ect., then we would have a clearer example of that somewhere..

Take note of one of the lies Satan told Eve.
Genesis 3:5
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

She thought she would gain something by being like "the gods." Adam and Woman were never called gods ... she wanted to be like the supernatural angels.

In my thoughts she was rejecting having been made after the image and likeness of God and wanted the glory of the angels. But angels were not created to reproduce. That is a huge clue as to whom the sons of God were who came unto earthly women to reproduce.

BTW ... being called "gods" is not identical to being called "sons of God."
"gods" specifically refers to the group of angels. "sons of God" refers to a larger collection of sentient beings which God brought forth... ALL OF YOU - including mankind.

Never even once does Genesis 6 refer to "the gods" coming down and mating with women outside of the Garden and having children wo became mighty men of renown.

One last point about the angels who left their former estate [a dwelling place]. God has reserved them in ever lasting chains [bounds] under darkness [within invisible-ness] unto the judgment of the great day.

My thoughts: They [the angels] who had to vacate their first dwelling place are now bound by a command from God to partake of the dust of the ground for the rest of their existence ... and live in darkness like a spirit which can possess or dwell inside of lost humanity's body of dust... or be cast out by Jesus elsewhere ... like into pigs until the time comes.

 

[Ps82]

Adam and or Eve had all the viruses.​

My take: There are good viruses and good bacteria and I figure God created them to do their job and all was good.

But when God cursed the ground things started mutating... Genesis refers to thorns and thistles and there is also a mention of tares among the wheat.

Symbolically, thorns and thistles/weeds refers to the perverted changes which resulted from the curse upon the ground. This for sure affected the bodies of humanity which had been perfectly formed previously from those elements. Now, things like cancer happens ... viruses mutated and what was good became cursed. Death entered the world and the bodies of mankind through the curse ... yet, God gave hope to humanity. That curse, which brought diseases, deterioration, and death into the world and man's body, was DONE FOR MAN'S SAKE! Something good would some day come out of it.

So, yes, I agree that mankind had all the viruses and such ... but they even the viruses were subject to evolving/mutating/ whatever to become destructive. The whole word is out of sorts and wearing out like an old garment.

I have a theory ... when is the time of the end?
When humanity is about to wipe out the whole world and God/Jesus has to come back to save and restore creation for his followers.

 

[Avajs]

Diseases were for man's sake? Let's just suggest that to every family who lost a child to cancer. What a special interpretation of the Bible you have. And just to get this straight we now suffer from disease because someone disobeyed several thousand years ago. Bonkers, truly bonkers on every level.

 

[7djengo7]

Bonkers, truly bonkers on every level.

To the nearest 10, how many levels are you talking about? Could you please list them for us?

 

[Ps82]

Diseases were for man's sake? Let's just suggest that to every family who lost a child to cancer. What a special interpretation of the Bible you have. And just to get this straight we now suffer from disease because someone disobeyed several thousand years ago. Bonkers, truly bonkers on every level.

I'm glad my comment sparked your questions. Once I was praying, actually complaining to My Lord; IF Jesus has come and overcome sin death, the WHY ARE WE STILL SUFFERING???!!! I felt just like you about it.

Well, he shut my whining mouth with a short sentence: "[My name], I waited on you!"

But then immediately followed up with scripture information to open my eyes!

Succinctly as possible:

• I created humanity to be full of fruit and multiply - have babies
• I made death a process to happen over time in order for humanity to continue to fulfill that purpose.
• People are still suffering from the curse upon the elements from which their bodies were formed so that God will wait with long suffering along with us until he is ready to end our multiplying.
• He did wait on me ... and you ... everyone on TOL and our children and grandchildren and he is still waiting.
• I ended my complaining when I realized I was thankful for his waiting and I wanted him to wait as long as possible and bring many of my family to his kingdom with me as possible.
• I asked him for help as I deal with the things in this world and to help me pass through the shadow of death with courage.. It would all be worth my time of bearing my form of death in this world to have loved ones eternally.

Now, how is the curse of the ground which brought death by cancer and other horrible things of benefit for humanity?

It is the way he established [with a warning beforehand I might add!] to circumcise our spiritual nature from this mortal infected snake bitten flesh AND for Him to give those who choose Him as LORD a NEW ETERNAL BODY.

We were all subjected to this state of mortality and suffering by one man - ADAM.
Only to be rescued by one man - OUR LORD AND SAVIOR.

Eve and Adam got snake bitten in the Garden and Jesus died to provide the anti-venom to cure us.

BTW, Satan is attached to partake of that same dusty elements of the ground. That set his fate also ... only he has no way of salvation. The bodies of angels must not be made of the same elements of the ground as mankind. So goes the cursed elements so goes Satan and lost humanity.

Now, as horrible and heart breaking as disease, suffering, and the death of loved ones are there is a worse fate. That is to die without a Savior.

I've never yet lost a child - I have prayers that I never do. I am so pro-life and desire that all children have their moment in the sun, but I have to put the fate of children in God's hands. I hope people are correct when they say that all innocent children get an automatic pass to heaven. Just heart breaking that someone would willingly take the life of a helpless child... even the mother. Weep.

 

[Ps82]

Diseases were for man's sake? Let's just suggest that to every family who lost a child to cancer. What a special interpretation of the Bible you have. And just to get this straight we now suffer from disease because someone disobeyed several thousand years ago. Bonkers, truly bonkers on every level.

Yep. By one mankind - Adam the world was subjected.
By the second Adam salvation comes.

It was the curse upon the elements of the world that God will make all earth/creation new. No more suffering and pain. No more tears, no more devil and his demons, but in order for you and I and etc. to be born God waits.

Though you and I see it as a bitter pill yet it was done this way for our sakes.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Diseases were for man's sake?

Diseases? No.

Diseases are the result of a broken creation.

What is being said is that viruses (which are simply carriers of genetic material) were created in the beginning.

Let's just suggest that to every family who lost a child to cancer.

That would, of course, be silly.

What a special interpretation of the Bible you have.

If you came here just to mock and not participate in fruitful discussion, I recommend you simply not post in this thread (or subforum) anymore.

Otherwise, the expected behavior for posting in this Creation Science section of TOL are found here:

Announcement concerning this forum

This is in regards to certain kinds of posters that like to come into this section to mock or post blasphemy, you will be removed from this section. Honest debate is allowed, mockery is not. Also theories that do not work off of the available evidence are disallowed in this section. This...

theologyonline.com

This post will be your only warning on this matter.

And just to get this straight we now suffer from disease because someone disobeyed several thousand years ago.

God made a perfect world.

Man disobeyed, and thus broke that perfect creation.

Sin (disobedience to God) has consequences that are far-reaching.

The whole of creation groans because of that sin.

And yes, roughly 7500 years ago.

Bonkers, truly bonkers on every level.

Supra.

 

[Ps82]

Diseases? No.

Diseases are the result of a broken creation.

What is being said is that viruses (which are simply carriers of genetic material) were created in the beginning.



That would, of course, be silly.



If you came here just to mock and not participate in fruitful discussion, I recommend you simply not post in this thread (or subforum) anymore.

Otherwise, the expected behavior for posting in this Creation Science section of TOL are found here:

Announcement concerning this forum

This is in regards to certain kinds of posters that like to come into this section to mock or post blasphemy, you will be removed from this section. Honest debate is allowed, mockery is not. Also theories that do not work off of the available evidence are disallowed in this section. This...

theologyonline.com

This post will be your only warning on this matter.



God made a perfect world.

Man disobeyed, and thus broke that perfect creation.

Sin (disobedience to God) has consequences that are far-reaching.

The whole of creation groans because of that sin.

And yes, roughly 7500 years ago.



Supra.

But I didn't take offense ... I figured Avajs was just in a place where he/she did not understand how God has worked in a relationship with humanity. I could show her a place where God actually thought it was beneficial to die than to live on Earth any longer. He allowed a child to die to rid him out of the hands of cruel men who would destroy the rest of his family in horrible ways. That must have been a really special kid.

God does not look at human death the same way we do ... It is a moment in the son [for those not murdered by other humans] and he know the hope which lays before all those who accept his gift of salvation through our Lord Jesus. Those who don't accept God as LORD and haven't learned the beginning to end cannot accept that any creator would put us in the condition we are in.

I'd love to talk to Avajs again sometime.

 

[JudgeRightly]

But I didn't take offense...

Irrelevant.

Announcement concerning this forum

This is in regards to certain kinds of posters that like to come into this section to mock or post blasphemy, you will be removed from this section. Honest debate is allowed, mockery is not. Also theories that do not work off of the available evidence are disallowed in this section. This...

theologyonline.com

I'd love to talk to Avajs again sometime.

Good for you.

 

[SwordOfTruth]

God made a perfect world.

Man disobeyed, and thus broke that perfect creation.

These 2 statements are contradictory. Something that is perfect can not be "broken". If it can be broken, it wasn't perfect to begin with.

 

[Right Divider]

These 2 statements are contradictory. Something that is perfect can not be "broken". If it can be broken, it wasn't perfect to begin with.

You have a false definition of perfect.