Abortion Photos Real, NY Times Fake

[Jefferson]

Abortion Photos Real, NY Times Fake

This is the show from Monday October 12th, 2009.

BEST QUOTE OF THE SHOW:

Recently a pro-lifer said to me, "Well, if the rescue movement was so important, why was it so small?" And I said, "So small? The civil rights movement had 10,000 arrests, civil disobedience. The rescue movement had 50,000 arrests of grandparents, parents, kids from all over the country - 50,000. It dwarfed the civil rights movement in many respects. But not in media coverage.

SUMMARY:

* See Photos in the NY Times: in another stunning development of the personhood era, the New York Times published Behind the Scenes: Picturing Fetal Remains researching part of the story of where the grisly abortion photos come from. Our dear friend Flip Benham, director of Operation Rescue National / OSA was inside the abortion clinic the day famous Malachi was retrieved as evidence of genocide. For those who claim, against all evidence, that the abortion photos are fake, KGOV general manager Will Duffy, Doug McBurney, and Bob Enyart suggest a few responses:
- What if they are real?
- What would it say about abortion if these photos were real?
- Can't you realize that you're in denial?
- Do you realize that your denial admits the horror of abortion?
- Yes, you're right. These kids were killed by drunk drivers. Nothing like this could ever happen in America. You can sleep well tonight.

* Columbine Murderer's Mother in Oprah Mag: I Will Never Know Why wrote Susan Klebold. Her article left out much of the most important Columbine information, including the terrible parenting they gave to Dylan and the extent to which he was raised by video games and the Internet. She left out the Columbine evidence that showed that her son's room and in-room refrigerator were full of alcohol with empty bottles littering the place. Klebold leads the media to believe that Eric Harris was the real bad guy, and her son the depressed follower, when the evidence suggests otherwise. And recall the New York Times interviewer who reported: "The most infuriating incident, Susan said, came when somebody said, 'I forgive you for what you've done.' Susan insists, 'I haven't done anything for which I need forgiveness.'"

* Join Bob at the Life Commercials Banquet: Steve Curtis, of Ten Minutes Till Midnight and American RTL, is hosting the LifeCommercials banquet on Saturday, October 24th at 6 p.m. at the Doubletree Hotel in Westminster Colorado. See Steve's flyer for details, and if you can, register soon and then if you'd like to sit at the BEL table, call 1-800-8Enyart to see if there are open seats!

* Bob and Doug Don't Ask But Do Tell: Why are more homosexual women than men kicked out of the military? Ask Bob and Doug.

* Help Colorado RTL Get Signatures: If you live in Colorado, could you help circulate the Personhood Colorado & CRTL 2010 petition? We need your help! If you live in any other state, can you help to advance personhood via the 2010 ballot or in one of three different ways?

Today’s Resource: You can enjoy one or two of Bob Enyart’s entertaining and insightful videos each month, mailed to you automatically, simply by subscribing to the BEL Monthly Topical Videos service! Also, you can check out the other great BEL subscription services!

 

[Granite]

Very good questions indeed.

Where do these pictures come from? Presumably from pro-lifers digging through trash.

They then pose the corpses of dead children...

Handle the dead bodies of these children...

Presumably--hopefully--provide these children a burial...

Then parade the pictures of the defenseless dead in broad daylight.

If your mother was raped and tortured to death would you carry around a picture of her nude, violated body to show your support for the death penalty?

Victims of abortion are posed, splayed, degraded, and cheapened by those who are left to speak for them. For shock value.

Shocking, yes. And for all the wrong reasons.

Pretty sad state of affairs.

 

[DocJohnson]

Very good questions indeed.

Where do these pictures come from? Presumably from pro-lifers digging through trash.

They then pose the corpses of dead children...

Handle the dead bodies of these children...

Presumably--hopefully--provide these children a burial...

Then parade the pictures of the defenseless dead in broad daylight.

If your mother was raped and tortured to death would you carry around a picture of her nude, violated body to show your support for the death penalty?

Victims of abortion are posed, splayed, degraded, and cheapened by those who are left to speak for them. For shock value.

Shocking, yes. And for all the wrong reasons.

Pretty sad state of affairs.

No different than photo-hounds who hang out at military bases while the dead soldiers are unloaded.

 

[Granite]

How is this no different?

 

[Lucky]

If your mother was raped and tortured to death would you carry around a picture of her nude, violated body to show your support for the death penalty?

Come on, Granite, you know there's a big difference.

In a court of law, it might be necessary. Outside the court, there's no need because adults are generally aware of the horror of rape. CSI and other American entertainments use photos of rape all the time. Awareness of the horror of abortion isn't nearly as common, and photos of abortion are rare in the media.

 

[Clete]

Very good questions indeed.

Where do these pictures come from? Presumably from pro-lifers digging through trash.

They then pose the corpses of dead children...

Handle the dead bodies of these children...

Presumably--hopefully--provide these children a burial...

Then parade the pictures of the defenseless dead in broad daylight.

So you acknowledge that unborn babies are children and that their bodied deserve some sort of respect and that its the pro-lifers that are somehow desecrating them?

If the pro-lifers are desecrating their bodies then what the hell do you think the "doctors" who murdered them and threw them in the trash are doing?

If your mother was raped and tortured to death would you carry around a picture of her nude, violated body to show your support for the death penalty?

If raping her was legal, I'd probably consider it, yeah! I, as a Christian, would cover up or in someway obscure her private areas (which isn't usually necessary with tiny babies) but otherwise, if I thought it would be effective, then you'd better believe I would do it.

Granite, here's a clue for you. It only people like yourself who are, as a matter of course, morally dubious and inconsistent with their own standards.

Victims of abortion are posed, splayed, degraded, and cheapened by those who are left to speak for them. For shock value.

You acknowledge then that they are victims?

The tactic isn't new. It was done to great effect during WWII in an effort to draw attention too the Jewish Holocaust and to sway public opinion against the Nazis. There's no telling how many Jews were saved by the tactic and likewise, there's no telling how many unborn babies have been saved via images of past victims. I can think of no greater honor to bestow upon such victims than to use their tragedy to help stop it happening to someone else.

The tactic was also used by you side during the sixties to sway public opinion against the Vietnam War. It worked in that case as well. You probably don't have a problem in the world with that one though, do you?

Shocking, yes. And for all the wrong reasons.

Pretty sad state of affairs.

Just what reasons do you think the images are used for? You say for shock value and that's absolutely right but what do you think the motive for producing that shock is? It isn't producing shock for shock's sake. Its to show in an unforgettably way the truth about what abortion really is, which is, just as you say, the murder of children.

I suppose you'd just have us be nice and talk softly to people and say please when we ask them not to murder their own baby.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Granite]

Come on, Granite, you know there's a big difference.

In a court of law, it might be necessary. Outside the court, there's no need because adults are generally aware of the horror of rape. CSI and other American entertainments use photos of rape all the time. Awareness of the horror of abortion isn't nearly as common, and photos of abortion are rare in the media.

Is it perhaps you know your mother and because other people well remember her in life you wouldn't go to the length of showing the horror of her degradation and murder?

Would you use her, or another loved one's corpse, as a prop to buttress your support for capital punishment?

Since the unborn are by nature defenseless and silent we're left to speak for them. Parading pictures of their naked mutilated corpses is not something I can appreciate or condone, because it isn't something we would ever do to anyone we knew in life and cared about.

Something's dreadfully amiss when those calling themselves pro-lifers are the ones carrying pictures of corpses. To affirm life we should stop insulting and exploiting the dead.

 

[Granite]

Hi Clete.

So you acknowledge that unborn babies are children and that their bodied deserve some sort of respect and that its the pro-lifers that are somehow desecrating them?

Clete, I've been posting here for six years. If you're just now realizing I'm opposed to abortion you're thicker than I thought.

Yes, I do believe some in the pro-life movement are exploiting the remains of these children.

If the pro-lifers are desecrating their bodies then what the hell do you think the "doctors" who murdered them and through them in the trash are doing?


The ones who "threw" them in the trash are treating them like garbage. Pro-lifers who parade these pictures are treating them like props.

If raping her was legal, I'd probably consider it, yeah! I, as a Christian, would cover up or in someway obscure her private areas (which isn't usually necessary with tiny babies) but otherwise, if I thought it would be effective, then you'd better believe I would do it.

That's Clete right there in a nutshell, folks. He's here every Thursday, nine till close. Behind the chicken wire.

You acknowledge then that they are victims?

...as I have my entire life.

The tactic isn't new. It was done to great effect during WWII in an effort to draw attention too the Jewish Holocaust and to sway public opinion against the Nazis.

You seem to be under the impression that documentation and photographs of the camps were available to the public before the end of the war. That's simply incorrect.

There's no telling how many Jews were saved by the tactic...

Here's a quick answer: none. Zero. Even reconnaissance of Auschwitz, as Allies contemplated bombing the place, did not reveal the extent of what was going on. (Smoke from the furnaces was the worst of it.) Again, you're simply inventing or imagining that the world knew what was going on and saw photographs of the Nazis's atrocities. No outsiders saw it for themselves until the end of the war.

I can think of no greater honor to bestow upon such victims than to use their tragedy to help stop it happening to someone else.

Interesting. That's a choice you're making for them, isn't it?

The tactic was also used by you side during the sixties to sway public opinion against the Vietnam War.

My side? Which would that be--the side that saw the entire war as a waste of lives and money, built on a lie, ultimately pointless (like most wars)? Uh, yeah. Color me guilty on that one.

It worked in that case as well. You probably don't have a problem in the world with that one though, do you?

If you mean, do I have a problem exploiting naked, shrieking children who've just been burned with napalm? Uh, yeah. You bet I do.

I suppose you'd just have us be nice and talk softly to people and say please when we ask them not to murder their own baby.

There are numerous tactics that are more effective, and life-affirming, and respectful to the dead. Respect for the dead: not a new concept. (Does anyone know what happens to their bodies once the photographers are done posing them? I can't for the life of me think of an answer I've ever gotten to that question.) If this isn't something most would do to someone they care about, why in the world do we presume to think it's something we can do to an innocent, naked, murdered stranger?

Well, they can't speak for themselves, can they? And the ones that can betrayed them by reducing them to a boo moment out of some B-grade slasher flick.

 

[Jefferson]

Parading pictures of their naked mutilated corpses is not something I can appreciate or condone, because it isn't something we would ever do to anyone we knew in life and cared about.

Then you disagree with the entire civil rights movement for praising the publishing of the photographs of Emmett Till's brutal murder (See photo below). Till's own mother even insisted on a public funeral service, with an open casket so as to show the world the brutality of the killing.

Pictures of Emmett Till’s mutilated body were published in Jet Magazine in 1955 soon after his death; this became one of the reasons to boost the civil rights movement at the time. Several civil rights protesters said at the time that after seeing those photos not only haunted but inspired them and gave them a boost to become more active than before.

When Jet Magazine ran the photos, Till's murder became an international story.

From the radical right wing National Public Radio - http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1969702

Jet magazine published photographs of the mutilated body of 14-year-old Chicago resident Emmett Till, who was brutally murdered in Mississippi. Many civil rights activists say seeing those pictures both haunted and inspired them. NPR's Noah Adams reports on the decision to publish the photos and the wide-ranging effect they had.

Margaret Block, a long-time activist in Cleveland, Miss., was a young girl when the pictures were published. "I remember not being able to sleep when I saw [the photos]," she says. "Can you imagine being 11 years old and seeing something like that for the first time in your life and it being close to home? The death of Emmett Till touched us, it touched everybody. And we always said if we ever got a chance to do something, we were going to change things around here."

For Charles Cobb, a Washington, D.C., journalist and author, the photos were also a catalyst to activism. Cobb first saw the pictures when he was 12 years old. He went on to develop the "Freedom Schools" that mobilized black voters throughout Mississippi in 1964.

Granite, did neither Jet Magazine nor Till's mother care about him?

 

[Granite]

Then you disagree with the entire civil rights movement for praising the publishing of the photographs of Emmett Till's brutal murder. Till's own mother even insisted on a public funeral service, with an open casket so as to show the world the brutality of the killing.

Pictures of Emmett Till’s mutilated body were published in Jet Magazine in 1955 soon after his death; this became one of the reasons to boost the civil rights movement at the time. Several civil rights protesters said at the time that after seeing those photos not only haunted but inspired them and gave them a boost to become more active than before.

When Jet Magazine ran the photos, Till's murder became an international story.

From the radical right wing National Public Radio - http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1969702


Granite, did neither Jet Magazine nor Till's mother care about him?

Ah, imagine that: Jeff actually dropping in on one of his own threads to make a comment. Are you going to pull your disappearing act again if I respond or will you actually attempt your hand at a back and forth discussion?

Answer when you can.

 

[Clete]

Hi Clete.

So you acknowledge that unborn babies are children and that their bodied deserve some sort of respect and that its the pro-lifers that are somehow desecrating them?

Clete, I've been posting here for six years. If you're just now realizing I'm opposed to abortion you're thicker than I thought.

I almost never read any of your posts and certainly make no effort to remember any of them that I do read.

I stopped reading your post after the above quoted portion. I realized that I truly couldn't care less about anything you have to say about anything.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Granite]

I almost never read any of your posts and certainly make no effort to remember any of them that I do read.

I stopped reading your post after the above quoted portion. I realized that I truly couldn't care less about anything you have to say about anything.

Resting in Him,
Clete

...either that or you realized you have nothing constructive to say and don't know history very well. You're clueless and transparent.

 

[chatmaggot]

Planned Parenthood is closing down some of its facilities here in Indiana.

http://www.indy.com/posts/planned-parenthood-to-close-6th-clinic

 

[Jefferson]

Ah, imagine that: Jeff actually dropping in on one of his own threads to make a comment. Are you going to pull your disappearing act again if I respond or will you actually attempt your hand at a back and forth discussion?

Answer when you can.

Granite, did neither Jet Magazine nor Till's mother care about him?

 

[Granite]

Granite, did neither Jet Magazine nor Till's mother care about him?

I'm sure his mother did. I disagree with the tactic, but understand why she did it. I don't believe it's an exact analogy to what I was discussing, however.

 

[Jefferson]

I'm sure his mother did. I disagree with the tactic, but understand why she did it. I don't believe it's an exact analogy to what I was discussing, however.

You said that tactic "isn't something we would ever do to anyone we knew in life and cared about."

Emmett Till's and the entire civil rights movement disagrees with you.

 

[Granite]

You said that tactic "isn't something we would ever do to anyone we knew in life and cared about."

Emmett Till's and the entire civil rights movement disagrees with you.

He's dead and in no position to do anything any longer. And all you're doing is trying to change the subject. If you can address any of the questions I posed, that'd be appreciated (though I doubt you will; like Clete, you generally tuck tail first chance you get). You're completely overlooking the "knew in life" bit, since of course posing the corpses of murdered strangers isn't the same thing as dealing with the remains of your adolescent child. When I said the situations weren't analogous I meant it.

Then again I wouldn't expect anything different from someone who cheapens the image of a dead stranger as casually as you do.

 

[Jefferson]

I wouldn't expect anything different from someone who cheapens the image of a dead stranger as casually as you do.

Do all the books and films showing the horrors of the Nazi holocaust against the Jews "cheapen the image" of those dead strangers?

 

[Granite]

Do all the books and films showing the horrors of the Nazi holocaust against the Jews "cheapen the image" of those dead strangers?

Jeff, you can keep trying to change the subject all you like, but again, like Clete, you're extremely transparent. Ain't foolin' anybody.

I'll revisit this thread shortly with my solution to the problem of these tawdry, gory, Grand Guignol displays of insensitivity, jaw-dropping callousness, and cheap distaste. As Gary North is fond of pointing out: you can't beat something with nothing.

 

[Granite]

Problem: the corpses of the murdered unborn are thrown into the trash as medical waste by their killers, then retrieved by their ostensible advocates, who, in turn, often pose and photograph these dead children. Such activities display a lack of respect for the dead, to put it mildly...

Solution: when the remains of these children are retrieved, bury them in cemeteries either on church property designated for such purposes, or in public cemeteries in a plot specially set aside for this.

Why?

Well for one thing the proper burial of the aborted children we recover is certainly the least we can do for them. Landfills and Dumpsters are hardly the best we can do for their last resting place.

For another this is, to be blunt, a move that is certain to draw some attention. Already pro-lifers have displayed memorials and what have you consisting of small white crosses dotting any given landscape; an actual cemetery with the actual remains of the aborted in any given community will lend much greater impact.

Should any attempts be made to block such cemeteries, certainly those advocating for them and the public at large will be entitled to an explanation. This as well should prove provocative.

Should abortion providers object to the retrieval of the remains their explanation as well would be rather revealing.

This sets the victims of abortion to rest with dignity and compassion. It does not, however, victimize aborted children one more time by handling and posing them like cheap props used for shock value and attention.

Thoughts?