Abortion-a crying shame. (HOF thread)

[Zakath]

Re: Re: The Rest of the Story

Re: Re: The Rest of the Story

Originally posted by Sozo

Okay, so it's not organized crime. But, I'm sure if they had the govenment behind them, they could do better.

Yes, it's very disorganized crime. One might think with the power of the almighty allegedly behind their efforts they'd be more effective... :think:

 

[Crow]

Re: The Rest of the Story

Re: The Rest of the Story

Originally posted by Zakath

A few additional related statistics...

Christians make up the great majority (about 70%) of women obtaining abortions...

• 43% of women having abortions claim to be Protestant
  
• 27% of women having abortions claim to be Roman Catholic
  
• One in five women having abortions claim to be born-again or Evangelical Christians

Source: 1995 Alan Guttmacher Institute study

===============================

No kidding, Zakath. You were a Christian, and you don't know that Christians are just as capable of doing evil things as anyone else? This thread was aimed at our own as well as at the non-Christians. Killing babies isn't just a Christian issue, just as drive by shootings aren't just condemned by Christians.

Incidents of Violence Against Abortion Providers
1977-2004

• 7 Murders
• 17 Attempted Murders
• 41 Bombings
• 168 Arsons
• 82 Attempted Bombings/Arsons
• 373 Invasions
• 1048 Incidences of Vandalism
• 591 Incidences of Trespassing
• 125 Incidences of Assault and Battery
• 357 Death Threats
• 3 Kidnappings
• 76 Incidences of Burglary

Source: National Abortion Federation

Do you believe that I or most of the Christians here think that it's OK to kill or otherwise assault abortion providers? Aside from the fact that your list looks pitiful against the human lives snuffed out each year in abortion clinics, being anti-abortion does not mean that you support violence against abortionists. They should be shut down by legal means. And those who murder abortionists should be put to death for murder.

 

[Zakath]

Re: Re: The Rest of the Story

Re: Re: The Rest of the Story

Originally posted by Crow

No kidding, Zakath. You were a Christian, and you don't know that Christians are just as capable of doing evil things as anyone else?

Not according to some Christians...

This thread was aimed at our own as well as at the non-Christians. Killing babies isn't just a Christian issue, just as drive by shootings aren't just condemned by Christians.

Thank you for clarifying that point.

Do you believe that I or most of the Christians here think that it's OK to kill or otherwise assault abortion providers?

Well, I would hope not, but I read an awful lot of bluster about executing people for certain sexual activities, etc. It's hard to separate the data from the noise sometimes, if you get my meaning...

Aside from the fact that your list looks pitiful against the human lives snuffed out each year in abortion clinics, being anti-abortion does not mean that you support violence against abortionists.

On what basis will some Christians, not you particularly, justify going to "war on terrorism" for killing children and adults in the WTC attacks, but not going to war on those who would kill children every day in every major city in the U.S.?

:think:

There's a cognitiive dissonance issue here...

They should be shut down by legal means. And those who murder abortionists should be put to death for murder.

I think we would agree on these last two statements... :thumb:

 

[Poly]

Re: Re: Re: The Rest of the Story

Re: Re: Re: The Rest of the Story

Originally posted by Zakath

There are many people who read boards like this that never post a thing. It's good for them to see that things aren't so "black and white" as some people might assume...

Well, while we're on the subject of making sure that people who read boards like this are reading what's good for them, I think it should be made known that anything you would have to say will be coming from one who doesn't think it's absolutely wrong for an 8 year old child to be raped.

 

[Zakath]

Re: Re: Re: Re: The Rest of the Story

Re: Re: Re: Re: The Rest of the Story

Originally posted by Poly

Well, while we're on the subject of making sure that people who read boards like this are reading what's good for them, I think it should be made known that anything you would have to say will be coming from one who doesn't think it's absolutely wrong for an 8 year old child to be raped.

So are you happy now that you've dragged Knight's bankrupt argument back out of the archives... it's a poor attempt to divert the thread, Poly.

I think that all rape is wrong, regardless of the age of the victim.

I also believe that human slavery is wrong and that torturing and killing people because of their religious beliefs or sexual practices is wrong.

Which is more than I can say for certain biblical literalists...

 

[the Sibbie]

Yikes! Those are some horrible pictures! Especailly the ones without heads! :madmad:

It's amazing to see how rapidly a child grows from week to week. The growth rates are drastic!

 

[the Sibbie]

Zakath, I wonder how many of those "Christian" women attended the church that you used to pastor?

 

[erinmarie]

Originally posted by the Sibbie

Yikes! Those are some horrible pictures! Especailly the ones without heads! :madmad:

It's amazing to see how rapidly a child grows from week to week. The growth rates are drastic!

My baby brother was born at 26 weeks gestation and weighed 1 pound 13ounces. He looked smaller than most of the pics Crow posted.

Also, my oldest daughter was born 19 days after her due date, and looked smaller than all of the babies in the trash bag. It's just sad to think of the depravity of the people who commited those acts.

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by the Sibbie

Zakath, I wonder how many of those "Christian" women attended the church that you used to pastor?

My, my, getting catty aren't we... :cattyfan:

Since our church was only a couple of hundred people at a time, probably not that many.

Judging by the baby boom that went on there among the young marrieds, I don't think there were many of them getting abortions during the time they attended... :think:

Much as I'd love to stay around while you sharpen your nails, I've got to head out for a meeting.

:ha:

 

[Crow]

Re: Re: Re: The Rest of the Story

Re: Re: Re: The Rest of the Story

Originally posted by Zakath

Not according to some Christians...

Some Christians think it's OK to have an elective abortion at 28 weeks. We've got fools in our camp too.

Well, I would hope not, but I read an awful lot of bluster about executing people for certain sexual activities, etc. It's hard to separate the data from the noise sometimes, if you get my meaning...

Christians are instructed to obey the law of the land, and that law prohibits killing people for certain sexual activities. Paul addressed it, I can't recall exactly where, I'm too lazy to look it up right now, and I'm certain you are familiar with this.

On what basis will some Christians, not you particularly, justify going to "war on terrorism" for killing children and adults in the WTC attacks, but not going to war on those who would kill children every day in every major city in the U.S.?
:think:
There's a cognitiive dissonance issue here...

Abortion doesn't get people's attention like the WTC. It isn't splashed accross the news to the same extent, and there's no gathering of weeping survivors of the murdered. We don't perceive it as an evil assault on the motherland.

Someone killing unborn babies doesn't quite present as personal a threat to most people as "Someone might drop a plane on my butt!" I think personal safety lies closest to the reason why terrorism elicits a far greater response than abortion. Adults are not in danger of abortion. Let something loose in this country that would end a few hundred thousand adult lives a year, and you'd see a somewhat heightened reaction.

Both issues need to be addressed. But do I believe that a terrorist act and a social/legal issue need to be handled or should be handled in the same manner? No. Force is appropriate to deal with terrorist attacks. Abortion is legal in this country. It should be dealt with by working to change the laws.

 

[Poly]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Rest of the Story

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Rest of the Story

Originally posted by Zakath

So are you happy now that you've dragged Knight's bankrupt argument back out of the archives

Yes, very much so because it clearly drives the point home that one can't give much credit to any point you're trying to make.

... it's a poor attempt to divert the thread, Poly.

And just what do you call it when you try and take the attention off of babies being aborted by diverting everybody's attention to the abortionists being killed, Mr Kettle?

I think that all rape is wrong, regardless of the age of the victim.

Yes, we all know, Zakath. You believe rape is wrong but you don't believe in absolutes...blah, blah, blah.

It's still just as ridiculous as it ever was. :kookoo:

 

[Zakath]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Rest of the Story

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Rest of the Story

Originally posted by Poly

Yes, very much so because it clearly drives the point home that one can't give much credit to any point you're trying to make.

And just what do you call it when you try and take the attention off of babies being aborted by diverting everybody's attention to the abortionists being killed, Mr Kettle?


Yes, we all know, Zakath. You believe rape is wrong but you don't believe in absolutes...blah, blah, blah.

It's still just as ridiculous as it ever was. :kookoo:

And you believe in absolutes, so you believe it's right to torture and kill people because of their sexual orientation...

...you're part of a group that believes human slavery is moral and good

There's plenty of foolishness to go round among us humans, Poly.

 

[Poly]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Rest of the Story

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Rest of the Story

Originally posted by Zakath

And you believe in absolutes, so you believe it's right to torture and kill people because of their sexual orientation...

Torture? I've never said anything about torture. If you're referring to a quick death for homos then you're right.

...you're part of a group that believes human slavery is moral and good

I'm sure you're idea of slavery is anything but biblical. (nice way to take advantage of what most people will assume you mean when you say "human slavery"....cheap)

There's plenty of foolishness to go round among us humans, Poly.

So by stating "us humans" are you admitting you're foolishness in not believing in absolutes?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by Zakath

Much as I'd love to stay around while you sharpen your nails, I've got to head out for a meeting.

:ha:

Run like the wind Zakath!!!!

When the going gets tough... Zakath gets sick... or gets going to a meeting.

The women of TOL gave ol' :zakath: a healthy beating today! :up:

That was awesome!

:zakath: :sibbie: :crow2: :cattyfan: :emarie: oly:

 

[Poly]

Originally posted by Knight

Run like the wind Zakath!!!!

When the going gets tough... Zakath gets sick... or gets going to a meeting.

The women of TOL gave ol' :zakath: a healthy beating today! :up:

That was awesome!

:zakath: :sibbie: :crow2: :cattyfan: :emarie: oly:

See? There's Poly reading Psalm 14:1 "The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God'". She passes it down the line to the other "Shesmackers" till it reaches the Sibbie who wollups Zakath with it.

 

[Crow]

Originally posted by Zakath

Perhaps the self-proclaimed "righteous" should look to cleaning their own house first... :think:

Christians are just as guilty of abortion as non-Christians. The whole nation's house needs cleaned when it comes to abortion.

BTW, I thought the "ruler" here was GW Bush - a devout evangelical Christian...

You think that the President rules in a Democracy?...wait, no, Republic?....wait, no, Representative Democracy?...oh, whatever the heck this is?

:darwinsm:

 

[the Sibbie]

Originally posted by Poly

See? There's Poly reading Psalm 14:1 "The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God'". She passes it down the line to the other "Shesmackers" till it reaches the Sibbie who wollups Zakath with it.

:darwinsm:

 

[Balder]

The graphic pictures are very effective at communicating the horror of abortion. I'm no longer a Christian, but abortion is not acceptable by Buddhist standards either.

But I wonder about the selective thinking here. Many of the people here, I am guessing, while rightly outraged by the violence perpetrated against these innocent babies, will nevertheless support execution of homosexuals and possibly adulterers, will defend Biblical descriptions of the mass slaughter of pagan children as "necessary" and divinely ordained, and will not say a peep against the thousands of civilians who die in our war efforts abroad. If you are truly against harming precious, sentient life, then why the narrow scope? Why be so tightly and murderously focused on this one issue, and yet so noncommittal about these other instances of human violence and atrocity?

I expect here all sorts of "conditions" to be offered, all sorts of contextual reasons why other sorts of human murder should be excused or defended (or at least ignored).

But it seems hypocritical to me.

Peace,
Balder

 

[Crow]

This happens to be the abortion thread. It's not the only issue. It's the issue we're discussing here. You're welcome to start threads on any of those issues you wish.

 

[Balder]

I have! But they're mostly being ignored...