A Saviour unto Israel

Status
Not open for further replies.

beloved57

Well-known member
Israel and Church same !

Israel and Church same !

That Israel and the Gentile Church are the same is true because God foretold that the Gentiles would be called His People Israel Rom 9:26

And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

The above is quoted by Paul from the book of Hosea where it applied to Israel Hosea 1:10

Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

Paul however spiritualizes it and applies it to the Call of the Gentiles in Rom 9:26.

2 Cor 6:16

And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The Name my people in scripture applies to Israel. Ezk 39:7

So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, the Holy One in Israel.

Matt 2:6

And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.

This is the same as Rom 15:12

And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

These Gentiles shall hope or Trust in Him because they are also of the Seed of Abraham.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
That National Israel of the flesh in and of it self was not God's Chosen people as many have carelessly assumed is most seen here Rom 11:7

7 What then? Israel[National] hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest[The Nation] were blinded.

Clearly the Election of that Nation is distinguished from the Nation, the Nation was blinded, but the Election [Chosen of God] were not.

They were blinded or cut off Paul later says because of unbelief Rom 11:20

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Now, why did they not believe ? Jesus gives us that answer here Jn 10:26


26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

That's why, because they were not God's Sheep or Elect. Persistent unbelief is an evidence of not being Elect of God, or One of His Sheep for whom Christ died. For Christ is plain in stating that He came not to save National Israel, but the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel Matt 15:24

But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

And if they believed they were of the Lost Sheep of Israel, if they did not believe, then they were not among the Lost Sheep of Israel as Jn 10:26 clearly states.

And so the cutting off of National Israel was due to the largest portion of it were not Sheep .

When David says in Ps 100 :3

Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

He is not speaking of National Israel, but of a very small remnant according to the Election of Grace.

David says we are His People ! Remember His People are those He foreknew Rom 11:2

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

Which are them foreknew in Christ Rom 8:28-29

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

That's who His People are, His Sheep, His Israel, all those He purposed before the foundation to be conformed to the Image of Christ His Son.

David as one of those blessed ones says Ps 17:15

15 As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Who is the City of God ?

Who is the City of God ?

P 46:4

There is a river, the streams whereof shall make glad the city of God, the holy place of the tabernacles of the most High.

Ps 87:3

Glorious things are spoken of thee, O city of God. Selah.

What does the psalm mean the City of God ? What river does he mean that makes her Glad ?

This City is Called the Holy Habitation of God. Lets look at Eph 2:21-22

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

This City of God is the Church, its not the City of Jerusalem in the middle east. Its a Spiritual City made by the Grace of God through Jesus Christ.

The Church His Body and Bride is Called a City Matt 5:14

Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Rev 21:2

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Promised Salvation to Israel !

Promised Salvation to Israel !

Isa 45:17

17 But Israel[My Elect] shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

The Salvation that God promises for Israel[The Seed of Abraham] here was a Covenant Salvation that reached to the ends of the Earth Isa 49:6

6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.


This is because it includes all of Abraham's not physical but Spiritual Seed [Israel] amongst the Nations.

Remember God promised to Abraham and His Seed, which included Him being made a Father of many Nations , the Land of Canaan for a Everlasting Possession Gen 17:5-8

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

This Land of Canaan for an Everlasting Possession is that Everlasting Salvation Promised to Israel Isa 45:17 that is unto all the Earth.

That's what Paul means here also Rom 4:13

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Israel is, that they might be saved.

Israel is, that they might be saved.

Rom 9:3-4

For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Rom 10:1-3

Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Now understand something, when the Apostle Paul wrote these, He understood there to be Two Israel's Rom 9:6

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

So He can only be praying for one of them, he knew one of them was not going to be saved, but the other he knew God promised to save Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

No doubt that's the one he prayed for, and that according to the will of God.

So now, when Paul prayed for that Israel, his kinsmen according to the flesh, be saved, he does not mean the whole physical nation of the ethnic jews whom God hath cast away and blinded as Per Rom 11:7, but he means those of his kinsmen according to the flesh who are of Israel, the election of Grace Rom 11:5 which would be only a small remnant of the nation.

You see Paul understood that all of the election of Grace Israel Rom 11:7 was not comprised of all ethnic jews of the nation of Israel Rom 9:6

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

So for Paul to pray for Israel, his kinsmen according to the flesh to be saved, is nothing more than Paul praying for the conversion of those ethnic jews like himself who were part of the election of Grace Israel, God's foreknown People out of that nation Rom 11:1-2

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

So Paul was merely desiring to see more of his fellow kinsmen according to the flesh, who belonged to the election of grace, to see them converted to Christ.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Peter connects the OT Church with the NT Church by the Gospel in His Epistle 1 Pet 1:11-12

11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

As when Jeremiah prophesied of the New Covenant era, when the sins of the Elect would be remitted Jer 50:20


20 In those days, and in that time, saith the Lord, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve.

That's because of the Promise here Isa 53:5,6,11

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

These are Gospel Promises of the Death of Christ, so Paul preached according to the scriptures, or to the Prophets how that Christ died for our sins ! 1 Cor 15:3

That was a Promise of the Gospel Eph 3:6

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

The Gentiles Under this present dispensation were included in those Gospel Promises of Jer 50:20; Isa 53:5-6,11, and they all together are the Church, the Israel of God ! The OT Saints were not made Perfect [ A complete whole body] without the NT Saints which included Gentiles, The Point made by the writer of Hebrews here Heb 11:40

God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

John Gill writes of Heb 11:40

that they without us should not be made perfect; the Old Testament saints are perfectly justified, perfectly sanctified, and perfectly glorified; but their perfection was not by the law, which made nothing perfect, but by Christ, and through his sacrifice, blood, and righteousness; and so were not made perfect without us; since their sins and ours are expiated together by the same sacrifice; their persons and ours justified together by the same righteousness; they and we make up but one church, and general assembly; and as yet all the elect of God among the Jews are not called, and so are not perfect in themselves, or without us. Jews and Gentiles will incorporate together in the latter day; and besides, they and we shall be glorified together, in soul and body, to all eternity.
 
Last edited:

beloved57

Well-known member
Rom 9:6-8

Rom 9:6-8

Rom 9:6-8

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Almost everyone has been deceived into thinking that the jews, the physical seed of Abraham, are the True People of God Israel, however they are not; in fact Christ during His own public Ministry amongst them said this of many of them Jn 8:37,,42,44

37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.


He means of course, He knew them to be Abraham's physical seed according to the flesh as in Rom 9:7,8a

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Jesus deny's that God is their Father which they did claim in Vs 41

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Instead of having God as their Father, Jesus declares of them that their Father is the devil.

In Vs 39

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Even though they claimed to have Abraham as their Father, Jesus deny's it because they do not do the works of Abraham.

Now what meaneth all this ? It was never Abraham's physical seed that were the People of God, but His Spiritual Seed, thats who were and are the True People of God, The Israel of God.

Rom 2:28-29

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Gal 6:14-16

14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Being the seed of Abraham outside of Christ Jesus in the flesh means nothing to God, it avails nothing.

Up in Gal 6:15 being of the physical circumcised jews availeth nothing, that word availeth means force, to prevail, so it has no force with God, that fact does not prevail with God.

This is most interesting in light of why God gave Jacob the Name Israel in the first place Gen 32:28

28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Meaning Abraham's Spiritual Seed and Heirs according to Promise !

Phil 3:3

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh

We are the Spiritual Circumcision or the Spiritual Israel or People of God !

You see Abraham is the Spiritual Father of all believe on Christ Jesus Rom 4:16

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us[Jew and Gentile Believers] also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Gal 3:6-7

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Its always been about Abraham's Spiritual Seed Israel.

And during his time That is Jesus when here on earth in the flesh, and Paul's, now during our time, ethnic jews , and their religion of Judaism has been and is apostate.

They says they are Jews, God's People, but they are not. Rev 3:9

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

They were the synagogue of Satan during Christ's Time Jn 8:44.

And not only is it true of them, that they are not Jews as in God's People, but its True of all work based religions, that claim salvation by what they do, be it accepting a gift, accepting christ, using their freewill to make a decision, or on and on !

If we believe that the True People of God Israel are jews according to the flesh, Abraham's physical seed Israel, we are deceived, and will more than likely remain that way until the day of Judgment, which will then be too late for Repentance on that matter !
 

beloved57

Well-known member
The Gentiles are Heirs with Abraham !

The Gentiles are Heirs with Abraham !

Matt 8:11

And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

Col 1:12

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

In the greek here its the inheritance and the saints, meaning its only one Inheritance and only one group of the Saints !

The definite article precedes both Nouns Inheritance and Saints !

Abraham and His Seed was promised an Heavenly Inheritance, that which he looked for by Faith Heb 11:8,10,16

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Now in Colossians, Paul writing to Gentiles who belong to Christ Col 1:26-27

26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Notice that these gentiles are being Identified with The Saints ! Again the definite article before the word Saints !

Now Paul informs them, Gentile Saints, that it was God that has qualified them or made them meet to share in or partake in or with

The word partake is the greek word meris:

a part, division of a country, (b) a share, portion.

Remember the Country Abraham sought as an Inheritance ? Heb 11:16

16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

God qualified these Gentiles to sharers of the Heavenly Inheritance of the Saints of Light, which would be Like His OT Saints, Abraham, Issac and Jacob, the Heirs of Promise Heb 11:8-9

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

These Gentiles in Colasse were as Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were, of the Elect of God, hence Paul calls them that here Col 3:12

12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness,longsuffering;

Notice also as Gentile Elect of God He directs them to the singing of psalms Vs 16

16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

For the Psalms were Spiritual Songs written by David mostly as He was inspired by the Spirit of God in the OT See also Eph 5:19

These would be Psalms of Praise as Ps 8;145;93

Psalms for Salvation Ps 27.

So the Elect among the Gentiles are partakers of the Promised Everlasting Canaan Land Gen 17:8

And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

Which is also the Promise of Everlasting Salvation Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

And it is God that makes them meet Col 1:12

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

It was not their own freewill decision !
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Something you should know about the jews !

Something you should know about the jews !

In the OT, all ethnic jews were not the Chosen People of God here Deut 7:6-7

6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

However the non elect jews did have a physical connection with those Jews who were of the Chosen, Remnant of the Election of Grace among them.

Yes, they had a biological physical oneness with them like that of Isaac and ishmael did or Jacob and esau, but as the case with them, some were Chosen and some were not.

Now because of the physical jews union with the Elect Jews, the non elect jews were able to enjoy many of the privileges that the Chosen Jews had from God Rom 9:4

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Of such privileges was that of hearing the Gospel and hearing it first in time under the New Covenant era at the out calling of the Election of Grace in Israel.

But then when those jews who did not receive the word of God, but did thrust it aside as in Acts 13:46, it became apparent they were not of the Chosen Remnant of Grace, The Sheep, because if they would have been, they would have heard the Apostles Preaching and received it and manifested that they were of God's Sheep, for John writes 1 Jn 4:6

6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

But by not hearing it and thrusting it away made manifest that they were not of God, not born of His Spirit, and were in a lost alienated state, and anyone in a lost state is unworthy of the things of God Matt 7:6

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Thats why Paul said to the rejecting jews this Acts 13:46

46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.


Their own actions declared them unworthy, to be swine, dogs. You see the only thing that makes any worthy, is this Col 1:12,13

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Israel, Seed of Abraham, is the Church !

Israel, Seed of Abraham, is the Church !

When the Lord Jesus Christ took on the Seed of Abraham Heb 2:16

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

He was becoming One Flesh with and Identifying with His Wife, His Bride Eph 5:31-33

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

Yes, they became experimentally One Flesh Heb 2:14-16

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

This also reveals to us that His Church, His Body, His One Flesh is with the Seed of Abraham, so the Church, His Bride and the Seed of Abraham [which is Israel] are one and the same !

Remember when Abraham told his servant , when sent to choose a wife for his Beloved Son Isaac [a type of Christ], that he made him sware not to choose one from among the caanaites, but from his country and kinsmen Gen 24:1-4

And Abraham was old, and well stricken in age: and the Lord had blessed Abraham in all things.

2 And Abraham said unto his eldest servant of his house, that ruled over all that he had, Put, I pray thee, thy hand under my thigh:

3 And I will make thee swear by the Lord, the God of heaven, and the God of the earth, that thou shalt not take a wife unto my son of the daughters of the Canaanites, among whom I dwell:

4 But thou shalt go unto my country, and to my kindred, and take a wife unto my son Isaac.

The same with Isaac and his Beloved Jacob Gen 28:1-3

And Isaac called Jacob, and blessed him, and charged him, and said unto him, Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan.

2 Arise, go to Padanaram, to the house of Bethuel thy mother's father; and take thee a wife from thence of the daughters of Laban thy mother's brother.

3 And God Almighty bless thee, and make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, that thou mayest be a multitude of people;

And so it is with God's Beloved Son, His wife, His Bride must be from among the People Heb 2:16-17

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

And all the Father giveth Him [as His Bride/ Wife] St Jn 6:37 shall come to Him, Just as Isaac's chosen Bride Rebekkah came to him, also how adam's bride/ wife came to him Gen 2:21-23

21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

The brought here is the hebrew word bow':

1) to go in, enter, come, go, come in

(Hiphil)
1) to lead in
2) to carry in
3) to bring in, cause to come in, gather, cause to come, bring near, bring against, bring upon
4) to bring to pass
c) (Hophal)
1) to be brought, brought in
2) to be introduced, be put

The main thing to see is that God causes Her to come to the Son. Its given to her to come to Him Jn 6:65

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Now, Just as eve had already been in adam when God Created him, for He created them in His secret purpose Gen 5:1-2

This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

So was Christ's Eve was already in Him before the World was Created Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us[His Bride] in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Now Christ, even then [before the foundation] was the Seed of Abraham, but not yet manifested as such in the flesh, but He would be in the fulness of Time. So Christ's wife is the Seed of Abraham as He is as Per Gal 3:16

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

For all who belong to Christ are the Seed of Abraham Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Israel, Seed of Abraham, is the Church ! 2

Israel, Seed of Abraham, is the Church ! 2

That the Church that Christ died for are the same as the Seed of Abraham He died for, and have the same results intended is seen when we compare Eph 5:25-27

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

With Heb 2:11-17;10:10

11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Now Heb 2:11 speaks of He [Christ] that sanctifies and they that are sanctified [His Church He died for ] as being of One .

Now Eph 5:25-26 informs us that He gave Himself for His Church to Sanctify her.

So Heb 2:11 and Eph 5:25-26 are the same about Christ Sanctifying those being sanctifying. Now notice that they are One in Heb 2:11 and so is the Church and Christ One in Eph 5:29-32

29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
The 144000 is the Church !

The 144000 is the Church !

The 144000 of Rev 14:1-4

And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow[accompany] the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

I trust these things, which could be more, confirm the Identity of the 144000 of Rev 14:1-5 as the Church , the Lambs Wife , One With Him !

Yes, this 144000 is the Church of Christ, His redeemed from the Earth. They are the same that are redeemed here Rev 5:9

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Thats the same as saying they were redeemed from the earth.

Notice also Rev 14:5 they are said to be blameless or without fault before the throne of God.

The greek word used here is amōmos:

without blemish

a) as a sacrifice without spot or blemish

2) morally: without blemish, faultless, unblameable

And the very same word is used here of the Church Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Its used again of the Church here Eph 5:27

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish or fault, blameless.

Jude 1:24

24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

Col 1:22

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you[The Church] holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Notice also that this 1440000 is said to follow Him every He goes Vs 4. Now who more suitable for that than the Bride the Church. Remember what Paul says of the Saints at the Second Coming, when the dead shall rise first, an we which are live shall be caught up to meet them in the air and what does it say after that ? 1 Thess 4:17

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

That prep with syn means besides or to accompany, so the Church will forever be beside Him and Accompany Him.

Also according to the Great Mystery the Church and Christ are One Flesh Eph 5:31-32

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ [The Lamb] and the church.

The Lambs Wife Rev 21:9

9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

Notice in her description that numeric number 144000 is indicated Rev 21:17

17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

The Lambs Wife is the Church, His Body, For she was espoused to Christ 2 Cor 11:2

2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you[The Church] to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Notice " a chaste Virgin" Now compare that to Rev 14:4

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Also that word espoused in 2 Cor 11:2 is a strong word its the word harmozō and means:

to join, to fit together. Thats why the 144000 are said to " These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth"
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Rev 14:4-5 The 144000 is the Church ! cont

Rev 14:4-5 The 144000 is the Church ! cont

Rev 14:4-5

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

This 144000 makes manifest the Glorified state of the Church, the Elect of God in Glory with all the good things said about her, for instance, they have not defiled themselves with women, and that they are virgins, and they are the firstfruits for God, and that in their mouth was found no guile [1 Pet 2:22], for they are blameless or without fault before the Throne of God Eph 5:27.

Now these are not good things that they can take the credit for themselves for obtaining, but these are things of what the Blood of Christ accomplished in behalf of them and made these things over to them by an act of Pure Grace.

This is that being made Perfect forever before God by that One Sacrifice/Offering of Christ Heb 10:14

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Its an manifestation of having been made complete in Him the Lamb Col 2:10

10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

But this is what redemption did or bestows upon them, notice again Vs 4

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Redeemed by the precious blood of the Lamb 1 Pet 1:18-19

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

These have been redeemed from the earth or from amongst men, hence they are the same as in Rev 5:9-10

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;or from amongst men as in Rev 14:4

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

And the same as those of Rev 1:5-6

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father;
to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Difference only being that Vision in Rev 14 sees them in Glory, Christ's Death having brought them safely there Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

So when we see the 144000 Virgins, we should not think of them, look what they have done, but rather, look at what Christ's giving of Himself for His Bride has accomplished for Her Eph 5:25-27

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he mightt present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Only one Hope !

Only one Hope !

Eph 4:4

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

There are not different hopes for the People of God, those whom He called in the OT and NT. Abraham was Called into hope

Heb 11:1,8

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Now the Hope of Israel Acts 28:20

For this cause therefore have I called for you, to see you, and to speak with you: because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.

In the original it reads:


γὰρ τῆς ἐλπίδος τοῦ Ἰσραὴλ τὴν ἅλυσιν ταύτην περίκειμαι.

Notice the definite article before hope " The Hope" Its only one Hope for one specific people, of the Israel [Remember Paul was an called Apostle to the Gentiles while saying this].

Now the Hope of Israel is the same Hope here Paul writes of Eph 1:18

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Col 1:27

27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Its the same Hope of Salvation 1 Thess 5:8

But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

The same Hope of Salvation as here Isa 45:17,25

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

All of these are of that same Hope Eph 4:4

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Notice also there is only one body of People interested in this one Hope .

The One Body is the One People of God !

There is not a separate body nor separate hope for the Jewish elect and the Gentile elect, and remember that Col 1:27 is for Gentile Elect Col 3:12

12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

There can be only one people as the Elect of God !

What can be more of a Blessed Hope as the Elect Gentiles Have in Christ Col 1:27 ? What Hope could the Elect Jews have that is more Honorable and dearer to God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ than Christ in you the Hope of Glory ?

If there is a more Grander Hope, then the Hope of the Glory of Christ in us must take a subordinate Glory to that, which the thought of is Blasphemous !
 

beloved57

Well-known member
The Kingdom of God !

The Kingdom of God !

That the Kingdom of God was not something unique to the jews in the things of God, but that the Gentiles also had an Interest in it, is confirmed in that the Chosen Apostle to the Gentiles, appointed a Preacher and Teacher primarily to the Gentiles 1 Tim 2:6-7

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not ) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

But yet within his quarters in rome he taught all jews and gentiles alike things pertaining to the Kingdom of God Acts 28:28-31

28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.

30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,

31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

Now notice that these things were taught by Paul based upon that the Salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will listen or hear His Voice Acts 28:28

Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. See Rom 10:17 !

This is the same Salvation of God promised Israel Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

And this is the Kingdom of God, Salvation in Christ !
 

beloved57

Well-known member
The Spiritual House of David !

The Spiritual House of David !

The House of David is the Spiritual House of David which is the Church, the Body of Christ, with Christ/ David as its Head.


Ezekiel 34:23

And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.

The House of David Spiritually is composed of all flesh [or ethnic groups] different sexes [male and female] and different social standings.

We know this by that Spiritual event that occurred on the Day of Pentecost with the out pouring of the Spirit of God upon some of all flesh, for Peter states here Acts 2:16-21

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

This was spoken of in Joel 2:28-32


28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.

But yet this is also the fulfillment of Zech 12:10

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Now is this a different event than that of Joel 2 ? No. Is it a contradiction ? No !

Because the House of David referred to here as well as the inhabitants of Jerusalem, they are comprised of both jew and gentile Elect of God.

Now granted, on the actual day of Pentecost, most who received the Promise of the Spirit that was poured out were of the elect remnant of the jews, some from all over who traveled to Jerusalem for the Holy Day, to include the Apostles, however not many days hence, The Spirit was also poured out on the Gentile Elect Remnant of the House of David Acts 10:45-46

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

So it came to pass as Joel Prophesied. God gave the Gentile Elect the same Gift of the outpouring of the Spirit as He did with the jewish elect remnant, and Peter mentions again here Acts 11:15-18

15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye [jew and gentile elect] shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

See 1 Cor 12:12-13 !

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

So both gentiles and jews partake of the same Promise of the Gospel Eph 3:6

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Such promise as here Zech 12:10

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

That is a Gospel Promise to a specific People through Christ. Thats why Christ after dying and being resurrected and exalted to the Right Hand of God was given the Spirit to pour out as seen here Acts 2:32-33

32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed/poured forth this, which ye now see and hear.

All the promises of God are made sure by Christ the Head of the Church, the Spiritual House of David 2 Cor 1:20-22

20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;

22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

The Spiritual House of David is one body Eph 2:16

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

This out pouring of the Spirit upon both jew and Gentile Elect is accomplished by the Redemption that is in only Christ Jesus, upon all for whom He died and redeemed from the curse of the Law Gal 3:13-14

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

The we here being the Spiritual House of David and the Inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Church, the Body of Christ under their King David Ezk 34:23

23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
The Church, the Blessing of Abraham !

The Church, the Blessing of Abraham !

Gen 28:1-4

And Isaac called Jacob, and blessed him, and charged him, and said unto him, Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan.

2 Arise, go to Padanaram, to the house of Bethuel thy mother's father; and take thee a wife from thence of the daughters of Laban thy mother's brother.

3 And God Almighty bless thee, and make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, that thou mayest be a multitude of people;

4 And give thee the blessing of Abraham, to thee, and to thy seed with thee; that thou mayest inherit the land wherein thou art a stranger, which God gave unto Abraham.

This is what Heb 11:8-11 speaks of

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

The Land Promise here as well as in Gen 17:8 is not the literal land of palestine, but a city, a spiritual city, whose builder and maker is God, and its this City Rev 21:2

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Remember Heb 11:15-16

15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

This is fulfilled in Christ and His Church, His Bride. Look at Rev 21:2

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Its the Lambs Wife, the Church ! Rev 19:7

Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Rev 21:9-10

9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

Folks this is the City that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob looked for Heb 11:8-10

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Its their Glorification with the Church, without which they were not Perfect Heb 11:40

40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Now the Blessing of Abraham mentioned in Gen 28:1-4, its the Church, Abraham's Spiritual Seed through Christ. Notice Vs 3

3 And God Almighty bless thee, and make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, that thou mayest be a multitude of people;

That word multitude is the hebrew word qahal:

assembly, convocation, congregation

The Church of Christ is, a ekklesia :

an assembly, congregation, church; the Church, the whole body of Christian believers.

The Church , The Body of Christ is the Blessed multitude of Gen 28:3, its the blessing of Abraham Vs 4 Gen 28:3-4

4 And give thee the blessing of Abraham, to thee, and to thy seed with thee; that thou mayest inherit the land wherein thou art a stranger, which God gave unto Abraham.

Gal 3:14

That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

The Spirit was promised to Abraham's Seed and Jacob's Isa 44:1-3

1 Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen:

2 Thus saith the Lord that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.

3 For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:

And all True Believers in Christ, with the Faith of God's Elect or Chosen are Abraham's Seed Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

If ye belong to Christ, also ye are His Body the Church ! Eph 5:23

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the Saviour of the body.

Col 1:24

Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

The Church the Body of Christ is that blessed multitude promised to Abraham, and then to Jacob in Gen 28:3-4!

The Church is the House of Jacob Luke 1:31-33

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

I know this is not well received for most people in religion, because it means they have been deceived for years about the Church and Israel, believing them to be Two Separate People Groups, but they are not, because we mean the Spiritual Seed of Abraham, the same in OT as in NT with Christ the Unifying Head !
 

beloved57

Well-known member
The Heavenly City is the Church !

The Heavenly City is the Church !

The Heavenly City that Abraham and the other Heirs of Promise looked for by Faith is the Church , and not a literal city Heb 11:9-10,16

9 By faith he[Abraham] sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

See Rev 21:14

And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

6 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Notice the same word prepared here Rev 21:2

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Yes, the City Abraham looked for was The Church, the Bride of Christ ! and it was not a literal physical city over in the middle east !

The City was the New Jerusalem John writes of here Rev 21:2, which is the Church, the Bride of Christ in Her completed, Glorified form and appearance or state; which was also seen earlier in the Book of Revelation here Rev 19:7-9

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Notice the word here ready, for it is the same word prepared in Rev 21:2

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

All of this indicates that the OT People of Faith and the NT People of Faith are all of the Church, the Bride, the New Jerusalem, the Wife of the Lamb ! This creates problems for those who hold to the error of Israel and the Church being separate people of God, it also exposes dispensationalism as pure error and deception.

Here are more scriptures pointing to the Church, the Body of Christ being the Holy City of God.

Ps 48:1-2

Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the mountain of his holiness.

2 Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King.

Isa 26:1-2

In that day shall this song be sung in the land of Judah; We have a strong city; salvation will God appoint for walls and bulwarks.

2 Open ye the gates, that the righteous nation which keepeth the truth may enter in.

Cp With 1 Tim 3:15

15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Those are correlating Truths, that same Righteous Nation which keepeth the Truth in Isa 26:2 is that same:

Church of the Living God, which is the pillar and ground of the Truth in 1 Tim 3:15 !

Christ is that Truth Jn 14:6, the Seed of the Women Gen 3:15.

The City Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob longed for was that Permanent Spiritual and Glorious Residence with the Redeemed Family of God, and so it was written Heb 11:40

40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they[OT Saints] without us[NT Saints] should not be made perfect[Complete].

It takes all believers in Christ of all ages to make the completed City of God !
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Beloved,

Your thread is greatly appreciated, for most Christians are stuck at Christ and him crucified.

They remain woefully ignorant of all that God did for us through all the works of Jesus Christ.

Thus,

What Jesus Christ did for us in his obedience to God included the world.

John 3:16

God is not a respecter of persons but of conditions.

Whosoever believes receives.

God chose Abraham because God knew Abraham would teach his children. Abe respected God and God respected Abe.

Genesis 18:19

God kept his plans about a new body of believers secret since the world began.

This mystery was progressively revealed starting at the day of Pentecost until God had Paul write it all down. Romans through Thessalonians most notably , and in other epistles as well.

Romans 16:25-26

Ephesians 3:2-12

Had the greatness of this mystery been known before, the princes of this world would not have crucified the lord of glory.

What is so incredible about this mystery?

Colossians 1:25-27

That all age of grace believers would have Christ in them.

All believers have the potential to fulfill John 14:12,

To do the works of Jesus Christ and greater. Greater works that Jesus Christ himself could not do, but by his fulfilling of God's calling to him, made available to us.


Likewise, believers are not in a separate body from Christ, ie, the bride of Christ, Israel,

but

are members in particular IN the body of Christ

This body being composed of believers (those who chose to believe, Romans 10:9-10 and then the good works that we have been foreordained to do, Ephesians 2:8-10 ) from both Judean and Gentile peoples.

I Corinthians 2:1-16

especially

"But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."

Why not? Because there was only one Jesus, who could only be at once place at one time. Our adversary would have rather have dealt with Jesus Christ one on one.

Now, everywhere there is a Christian, there is son of God with the spiritual potential to not only do the same works as Jesus Christ, but greater works.

Our adversary, the ruler of this world, by crucifying the lord of glory, now has to contend with millions of believers with Christ in them

Most Christians seem to stuck with Christ and him crucified. Hence the cross at the center of most Christian denominations.

However, Jesus Christ's works did not end at the cross. His valor and love and courage to do the will of the Father continued and continues.

God raised him from the dead, which is prove positive that Jesus is that son of God. Romans 1:3-4

Jesus continued to show himself alive with many infallible proofs

was taken up to heaven

seated at the right hand of God

and shed forth the gift of holy spirit, that God gave him to give to us.

Acts 2:33

The majority of Christianity is missing out on all that God did for us in Christ, which is now in us.

Well, without going through much of the epistles, that is enough for now
 

beloved57

Well-known member
om

Beloved,

Your thread is greatly appreciated, for most Christians are stuck at Christ and him crucified.

Did you understand the points made in post 338? Could you please address them ?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top