Freak said:
Let's see if Clete will answer the questions.
I will answer any question you pose. That is unless you prove to be a jackass and say something inane like this one more time.
Re-read my answer. You do know I answered your question, correct?
You didn't give a straight answer, no. Why not give a simple yes or no answer to the question? Do you or don't you accept the presence of antinomy in the Christian faith? Why are you so scared of this? I don't get it.
It wasn't prophecy? Bizarre.
It was totally prophecy. I didn't say it wasn't.
Questions for Clete:
1. Clete: If God were to "change his mind" about anything, this would mean by default that he failed to have complete knowledge (omniscience). Correct?
Incorrect. (Jeremiah 18)
You may ask Freak- why is this? Well, if a "change" became necessary for God, this would be a shortcoming or lack of complete knowledge.
No it wouldn't, your logic is juvenile and silly. You've read too much of Plato. You should reread Jeremiah 18. God explains in detail why He might be led to change His mind.
2. Clete: any change in a perfect God-including a "changed mind"-would mean God changed to something less than perfect since perfection implies completeness, lacking no thing. Change for a perfect Being must be a change for the worst since a perfect God could not change for the better. A "changing perfect God" is, therefore, a contradiction and fails to describe an all-powerful, all-knowing, everywhere-present God. Think about it. Would a perfect LIVING God change for the better?
Is this Freak I'm talking to or Plato? You do realize you are nearly quoting him verbatim, right? No such logic can be found in the Bible. You do still hold to Sola Scriptura, do you not?
This has already been addressed by Knight but since you want me to answer your inane questions which you ignore perfectly good answer too, here goes nothing...
This logic of Plato's (that a change in something must be for the better or for the worse) is flawed to begin with because it completely ignores the third possibility which is a neutral change. But even if you accepted it on some basic level (which I do not) it could only apply to things which are static by nature. Anything alive that does not change in anyway whatsoever isn't alive (by definition), thus God MUST change in some respect or else He cannot be a living God.
Is your God a living God, Freak? If so, you must reject this pagan philosophical crap in favor of something far more Biblical.
It can be proven easily that God changes in real and in important ways. God existed for an eternity as a Spirit and at one time become a man. He hadn't always been a man but He BECAME a man. He then later DIED! After that He rose from the dead never to die again. He, at that point had acquired a glorified body which He had never had up until that point. He then ascended BACK to the Father. Up to the incarnation He had never been in a position where it would have been possible for Him to ASCEND to anywhere particularly not to the Father. And on and on I could go listing change after change having to do with the very gospel story itself.
3. Keep in mind, Clete, that a perfect Being can't lack anything that is characteristic of his nature or he fails to be perfect. Now, how does this relate to whether or not God can change his mind? Well, if God could change his mind, this would mean that his "conclusion" or "knowledge" prior to the change was incorrect. He would, therefore, not be the perfect Being that he must be by nature. Any change in God would be a violation of his attributes. Correct?
No, incorrect. Again see Jeremiah 18. God Himself says explicitly that He will repent (change His mind) if the situation calls for it.
This is fairly simple, Clete, a changing God implies a incompleteness. A change for a perfect being (God) must be a change for the worst since a perfect God could not change for the better-for He is perfect.
No it implies that only in the mind of Aristotle and Plato. Change does not imply incompleteness. Further, your definition of perfection is not Biblical. I have a question for you. What does it mean for God to be perfect and why? Please establish any attempted answer to that question Biblically please.
The apostle John, in speaking of the Lord God, states, that He knows ALL things. Ever read the Books John has written?
I've read them all many times and I think that you know as well as I do that
ALL almost never means "every last single thing" when used in common language. If God only knows those things that He wants to know that are knowable, it would not be an incorrect thing to say that God knows "all" things. It would be a very common way of speaking and it would not be necessary to explain all the exceptions to such a general statement, in fact it would be weird to do so.
Resting in Him,
Clete
