A problem with open theism (HOF thread)

[Nathon Detroit]

I see that we are mostly in agreement after all.

I don't think so. I don't think we agree at all.

God chooses NOT to know the future.

He intentionally created us NOT KNOWING the future or our future choices so that our love for Him would NOT BE coerced.

When I said..."It isn't that God CAN'T know the future because He certainly could have chose to create a static future without freewill agents." I mean that to be hypothetical, in other words God COULD HAVE created that way but He chose not to.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

So you are saying that He does not care.

Uh ... yeah... that's what I am saying. :kookoo:

Dude, try a little harder OK?

 

[Delmar]

What about the "day is as a thousand years" reference?

It's like the way a 90 year old perceives time differently than a five year old but to the extreme.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Knight,

This is getting more bizzarre by the minute.

They bought a lemon and they refuse to trade it in.

 

[Agape4Robin]

I don't think so. I don't think we agree at all.

God chooses NOT to know the future.

He intentionally created us NOT KNOWING the future or our future choices so that our love for Him would NOT BE coerced.

When I said..."It isn't that God CAN'T know the future because He certainly could have chose to create a static future without freewill agents." I mean that to be hypothetical, in other words God COULD HAVE created that way but He chose not to.

Ah, so now the mighty Knight knows what God does and does not choose to know....

He must be .......special :kookoo:

 

[drbrumley]

So you are saying that He does not care.

Is buying a legal pad affect your relationship with Him?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Where did I say that Christ is still suffering in reality?

Right here...

God has no beginning, no ending and therefore has no past.

 

[Agape4Robin]

Right here...

Nope....I don't see where I said that Christ is still suffering on the cross.......... :nono:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Nope....I don't see where I said that Christ is still suffering on the cross.......... :nono:

You said God has no past.

If God has no past then the suffering can't be in the past!

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Man I love open theism! It rocks! It cannot be defeated and it has no holes! Praise the Lord!!!

Threads like this get me so pumped!

It's just too easy.

But isn't that how the truth should be?

Gotta go, be back later!

 

[Agape4Robin]

You said God has no past.

If God has no past then the suffering can't be in the past!

If God has no past, then He can't be suffering now can He?

 

[Mr. 5020]

Is buying a legal pad affect your relationship with Him?

I was referring to things important to us. Does He care about things that are important to us?

 

[Jeremiah85]

I don't think so. I don't think we agree at all.

God chooses NOT to know the future.

He intentionally created us NOT KNOWING the future or our future choices so that our love for Him would NOT BE coerced.

When I said..."It isn't that God CAN'T know the future because He certainly could have chose to create a static future without freewill agents." I mean that to be hypothetical, in other words God COULD HAVE created that way but He chose not to.

I would really appreciate it if you could answer my questions without my having to repeat them. To recap: so, do we agree that God can know what our decisions will be?

Ah, so now the mighty Knight knows what God does and does not choose to know....

Knight, have you been having some conversations with God that we need to know about? :chuckle:

 

[julie21]

Knight: He intentionally created us NOT KNOWING the future or our future choices so that our love for Him would NOT BE coerced.

Can you explain tnis please?
How could His knowing OUR future or OUR future choices coerce our love for Him?...as we are not privy to His knowledge, we do not have 'foreknowledge', and so we can't possibly love Him for anything other than what we know of Him at this moment in time? Loving Him for all He has done for us in our lives in the past, what He is doing at this very moment and what He will do for us in our future, even though we do not know our future...His knowledge of our future choices cannot coerce us into loving Him. We love Him just because of who He is, was and forever will be.

 

[drbrumley]

If God has no past, then He can't be suffering now can He?

Then He never really suffered then either by this logic.

 

[drbrumley]

I was referring to things important to us. Does He care about things that are important to us?

Yes He does.

 

[drbrumley]

I would really appreciate it if you could answer my questions without my having to repeat them. To recap: so, do we agree that God can know what our decisions will be?

Knight, have you been having some conversations with God that we need to know about? :chuckle:

I understand from the Bible that God can know the future. But the Bible shows us when He does. He determines it. When He determines it, He makes it happen. Therefore, He can know that it will happen, but that does not mean that He knows it because He looks into the future to know it.

 

[Delmar]

What about the "day is as a thousand years" reference?

It's like the way a 90 year old perceives time differently than a five year old but to the extreme.

 

[docrob57]

Logically there is no alternative.

There certainly is, and I have given it, but it seems beyond the comprehension of those arguing the alternative.

 

[Jeremiah85]

I understand from the Bible that God can know the future. But the Bible shows us when He does. He determines it. When He determines it, He makes it happen. Therefore, He can know that it will happen, but that does not mean that He knows it because He looks into the future to know it.

I must disagree. I firmly believe that God knows everything. For Him to know any less would make Him imperfect and vulnerable to mistakes.