A Peculiar Kind of Gospel

[godrulz]

Originally posted by lighthouse

granite now denies Christ. See your post following the one quoted above for a description of granite and Zakath.

Ok. So Zak denies Christ. If he remains in this state, he must not have been a believer. If he repents, and becomes a Christian, then it might mean he was a believer before or he is now becoming one for the first time. If he bears fruit for years, but then becomes bitter against God, and returns to atheism, then he must not have been a believer. If he does not fall away, then he must have been a believer after all?

Granite now denies Christ. What if he comes to his senses and returns to Christ? Then maybe he was a believer after all, or maybe it is his first time. If he persists in his denial, then he must not have been a believer? Really? Why is this so? It is not self-evident to me.

If one can move from unbelief to belief, why cannot someone move from belief to unbelief?

Your view of eternal security must presuppose a suspension of free will and the necessity of coercion at times.

For a non-Calvinist, you seem to have adopted their wrong assumptions (TULIP).

I do not definitively know Zak or Granite's previous heart state. It appears that they must embrace Christ now, regardless, or they will be lost. It is academic to quibble whether they were ever saved. If they were, they could have immunity and a false sense of security that it will wash in the end. If they were not, it means they have lived a lie for years? Satan must be better at deceiving
'Christians' into thinking they are following Christ, than Christ is at converting people and giving them assurance and keeping them in the faith?

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by godrulz


Granite may or may not have been a genuine Christian. There is no reason to assume a person could not have possibly been a Christian if they become apostate. This is one of two possibilities.

You don't have a clue what the hell you are talking about! You are a demon-possessed lifeless pig!

I hope you go to hell and burn for eternity for the lives that you destroy through your gospel of self-righteousness! Hitler had nothing on the evil that you perpetrate!

 

[godrulz]

Originally posted by lighthouse

:Grizzly:

Helpful response

 

[godrulz]

Originally posted by Sozo

You don't have a clue what the hell you are talking about! You are a demon-possessed lifeless pig!

I hope you go to hell and burn for eternity for the lives that you destroy through your gospel of self-righteousness! Hitler had nothing on the evil that you perpetrate!

:shocked: :noid: :doh: :freak: :shut: :kookoo: :help:

 

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by godrulz

Ok. So Zak denies Christ. If he remains in this state, he must not have been a believer. If he repents, and becomes a Christian, then it might mean he was a believer before or he is now becoming one for the first time. If he bears fruit for years, but then becomes bitter against God, and returns to atheism, then he must not have been a believer. If he does not fall away, then he must have been a believer after all?

Granite now denies Christ. What if he comes to his senses and returns to Christ? Then maybe he was a believer after all, or maybe it is his first time. If he persists in his denial, then he must not have been a believer? Really? Why is this so? It is not self-evident to me.

If one can move from unbelief to belief, why cannot someone move from belief to unbelief?

Your view of eternal security must presuppose a suspension of free will and the necessity of coercion at times.

For a non-Calvinist, you seem to have adopted their wrong assumptions (TULIP).

I do not definitively know Zak or Granite's previous heart state. It appears that they must embrace Christ now, regardless, or they will be lost. It is academic to quibble whether they were ever saved. If they were, they could have immunity and a false sense of security that it will wash in the end. If they were not, it means they have lived a lie for years? Satan must be better at deceiving
'Christians' into thinking they are following Christ, than Christ is at converting people and giving them assurance and keeping them in the faith?

The reason granite and Zakath were never Christians is because they never knew Christ. They now deny, not only His Lordship, but His existence.

 

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by godrulz

:shocked: :noid: :doh: :freak: :shut: :kookoo: :help:

Here's the problem. You're missing Sozo's point. He doesn't really want you to go to hell, but he truly believes that if you keep preachig lies then you will end up there, and deserve it.

 

[OMEGA]

denial

denial

My opinion is that it is up to the Individual to Stay in Christ

or Go Away because Jesus said that we must abide in HIM

and pray always and Not deny Him.

If we do not Endure or if we Deny Him then we will NOT be in the

Kingdom with the Elect and thus, have the same fate as all those

who did not follow Christ.

There is No mention of the person who denies Christ

going to Hell as far as I can find but just suffering the Wrath

of God on all those unbelievers when He comes back with Jesus

to Reward his followers.

Mt 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Re 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

 

[OMEGA]

Sozo said,

You don't have a clue what the hell you are talking about! You are a demon-possessed lifeless pig!

I hope you go to hell and burn for eternity for the lives that you destroy through your gospel of self-righteousness! Hitler had nothing on the evil that you perpetrate!
--------------------------------------------------

Pope Sozo has responded in his usual Graciousness .
------------------------
These are the Words of a man who claims to be PERFECT.

 

[godrulz]

Originally posted by lighthouse

Here's the problem. You're missing Sozo's point. He doesn't really want you to go to hell, but he truly believes that if you keep preachig lies then you will end up there, and deserve it.

Sozo's arrogance and lack of Christ-like character are indefensible. Reread what he said. He is calling a born again believer demon possessed. This grieves God and is contrary to explicit Scriptures. You are a fool to defend his lunacy. He needs to publicly repent for his slander, not be coddled as a guru.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.

It is classic sozo to revert to argumentum ad hominem when something triggers a nerve. Deal with the arguments rather than attacking the person.

Equating my reasonable understanding of non-Calvinism with Hitler's massacre of millions of Jews confirms his lack of credibility to teach or influence. Millions of godly believers and scholars would not lump my ideas in with Hitler's evil. In fact, most non-Calvinists would not misunderstand my ideas as much as you guys, the gruesome twosome (sorry in advance for the little dig).

 

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by OMEGA

Sozo said,

You don't have a clue what the hell you are talking about! You are a demon-possessed lifeless pig!

I hope you go to hell and burn for eternity for the lives that you destroy through your gospel of self-righteousness! Hitler had nothing on the evil that you perpetrate!
--------------------------------------------------

Pope Sozo has responded in his usual Graciousness .
------------------------
These are the Words of a man who claims to be PERFECT.

Sozo does not claim to be perfect in the flesh, OMEGA. He says that Christ has made Him perfect in spirit, because that is the only way anyone gets into heaven. That is all. Sozo knows he's not perfect in the flesh.

 

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by godrulz

Sozo's arrogance and lack of Christ-like character are indefensible. Reread what he said. He is calling a born again believer demon possessed. This grieves God and is contrary to explicit Scriptures. You are a fool to defend his lunacy. He needs to publicly repent for his slander, not be coddled as a guru.

I read what he wrote. And I don't agree with his method on this one. But I sincerely believe that he is trying to get your attention, and make you look at what you believe.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.

And? Do you always exhibit these?

It is classic sozo to revert to argumentum ad hominem when something triggers a nerve. Deal with the arguments rather than attacking the person.

We've dealt wiht your arguments, over and over again. But it seems to me that Titus 3:10-11 should be applied here.

Equating my reasonable understanding of non-Calvinism with Hitler's massacre of millions of Jews confirms his lack of credibility to teach or influence. Millions of godly believers and scholars would not lump my ideas in with Hitler's evil. In fact, most non-Calvinists would not misunderstand my ideas as much as you guys, the gruesome twosome (sorry in advance for the little dig).

First of all, we are not Calvinists. Neither of us are. I can not leave God. Not even theoretically. Why? Because I know Him. I have met Him, and He is in me. There is no reversing that.

 

[Lawless]

godrulz: I am interested in asking you a quick question ,if I may

Earlier in this thread, you mentioned " The law of love and grace" . This question below somewhat pertains.

How do you interpret......... The letter of the law, and the spirit of the law?

 

[godrulz]

Originally posted by lighthouse

Sozo does not claim to be perfect in the flesh, OMEGA. He says that Christ has made Him perfect in spirit, because that is the only way anyone gets into heaven. That is all. Sozo knows he's not perfect in the flesh.

Why divorce spirit from flesh? We are one person: spirit, soul, and body. We are to glorify God in spirit, heart, mind, will, intellect, emotions, eyes, mouth, hands, body. A perfect spirit should manifest in body. Flesh is used as a metaphor for living for sin, pleasure, bodily desires, etc., but the body is called the temple of the Holy Spirit for believers. There is a difference between Paul's use of flesh and physical body.

 

[godrulz]

Originally posted by Lawless

godrulz: I am interested in asking you a quick question ,if I may

Earlier in this thread, you mentioned " The law of love and grace" . This question below somewhat pertains.

How do you interpret......... The letter of the law, and the spirit of the law?

Not all laws are bad. Traffic and health laws are beneficial. God's moral law is also a foundation for right living and society.

I do not remember context, but the letter of the law could be do not murder and commit adultery (Pharisees understanding). The spirit of the law (Jesus) is that hate and lust break the spirit vs letter of the law. They thought Jesus broke the letter of the law on Sabbath issues. Jesus kept the spirit of the law by healing on the Sabbath (the sanctity of life trumps the numerous Pharisaical laws added to the Decalogue).

Does it say the letter kills, but the spirit gives life? The Law condemns us as falling short of God's perfection. The law of love and liberty in Christ (the laws are written on our hearts, rather than tablets of stone) allows us to keep the spirit of the law.

Legalism X

License X (lawlessness)

Love/obedience..check.

 

[godrulz]

"Go to hell, godrulz" -Sozo

Rather than gossip on a subscriber's only forum, why not do the biblical thing and approach the one you have an issue with? It is rather spineless to snipe without allowing someone to clarify issues. Your approach is undermining, rather than loving and edifying.:down:

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by godrulz

Sozo's arrogance and lack of Christ-like character are indefensible.

You wouldn't know Jesus if you were standing face to face! *Here is a hint: He will be the One who says to you "I never knew you".

He is calling a born again believer demon possessed.

That is a blatant lie, and slanderous!

This grieves God and is contrary to explicit Scriptures.

It is you who greives God, because you reject His word explicitly.

He needs to publicly repent for his slander

You need to repent of your unbelief in Christ and receive the gospel.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.

And you HATE everyone through your presentation of your false gospel. Your message is of despair, fear, tolerance, wickedness, hopelessness, and self-righteousness.

It is classic sozo to revert to argumentum ad hominem when something triggers a nerve. Deal with the arguments rather than attacking the person.

You are so full of crap! Everytime I address you with an argument, you either ignore it completely, respond with someone else's theological opinion, or use your pat answer that "there are several acceptable views among believers"

Equating my reasonable understanding of non-Calvinism with Hitler's massacre of millions of Jews confirms his lack of credibility to teach or influence.

Your right, what you are doing to the lives of people is far worse than just killing them, YOU are a offering them eternal damnation.

Millions of godly believers and scholars would not lump my ideas in with Hitler's evil.

Anyone who believes what you do, is not a believer in Jesus, but their faith is in themselves, and their god is Satan, as is yours.

Rather than gossip on a subscriber's only forum, why not do the biblical thing and approach the one you have an issue with?

You are correct! I meant to put it in the "Back Alley", and mistakenly put it in the "Back Room". Sorry about that. If it makes you feel any better, here is the post...

Why don't you leave here, godrulz?

Even the pagans at this sight let it be known what they are, but not you. You keep on with this facade of yours every day, and I've grown sick of listening to your false gospel, and your Christ hating crap!

There are no words strong enough to describe how utterly depraved and despicable you are as a person. I can only pray that God would see to it that your flesh would find it's end, so that others will not be taken in by your deceit.

You are a virus in the midst of sheep, and a plague on the minds of the lost. You are good for nothing!

 

[godrulz]

Unbelievable. Thankfully you are not my Judge. Your lack of discernment is despicable.

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Sozo

There are no words strong enough to describe how utterly depraved and despicable you are as a person.

Originally posted by godrulz

Your lack of discernment is despicable.

It's not enough that you have to steal your ideas about God, but you also have to steal your insults.

Here's a thought...

Since Christmas is coming, perhaps you should ask for a mind of your own.

 

[godrulz]

I vacillate between laughing out loud and being grieved in my spirit. I did not mean to steal your insult (one word similarity is coincidental continuity). I really do not want to stoop to your level. Your acerbic nature (caustic, vitriolic), that has a thinly veiled guise of superspirituality, is the antithesis of the character of Christ. You once again prove your lack of 'perfection'. It is a good thing we do not have to be perfect in the flesh to be saved.

I look forward to seeing you in heaven (I am not a Zakath). Perhaps others are not edified by your personal attacks and we should unclutter positive forums. You have made your point and perhaps we should ignore each other. Trust the Holy Spirit to keep the naive people here from my horrific deception and distortion of the gospel.

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by godrulz

Trust the Holy Spirit to keep the naive people here from my horrific deception and distortion of the gospel.

It hasn't worked on you.