79 Percent of Evangelicals See Violence in Middle East as Sign End Times Are Near

79 Percent of Evangelicals See Violence in Middle East as Sign End Times Are Near

  • Yes, and I am a christian

    Votes: 15 51.7%
  • No, and I am a christian

    Votes: 11 37.9%
  • Yes, I am not a christian but have my own end times beliefs

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No, I am not a christian and hold no such beliefs in any faith or lack of

    Votes: 3 10.3%

  • Total voters
    29

glorydaz

Well-known member
Curiously,if their are the many references to the wrath being poured out on those who had the mark,the number,or who worshiped the image of the beast,,,then the events taking place today cannot precede the two marks.

That's if your definition of the mark, the number etc. lined up with the "events" that could be other than you see them.....

We can look back and see Israel became a nation after nearly 2,000 years of dispersion. None would have imagined that was even a possibility. The desert now blooms.....the temple mount is being restored.....Israel is surrounded and hated. Looking back is how we can see these things. Discerning what can happen that will cause us to rethink what we had assumed we understood is not so easy.
 

whitestone

Well-known member
That's if your definition of the mark, the number etc. lined up with the "events" that could be other than you see them.....

We can look back and see Israel became a nation after nearly 2,000 years of dispersion. None would have imagined that was even a possibility. The desert now blooms.....the temple mount is being restored.....Israel is surrounded and hated. Looking back is how we can see these things. Discerning what can happen that will cause us to rethink what we had assumed we understood is not so easy.

agreed,can the end time plagues be in effect if the beast has not risen?,,will God punish those who have the mark,number or worship the image before the beast rises?
 

Crucible

BANNED
Banned
I was more interested in the Mayan calendar looking like an Oreo than the doomsday it was claimed to reveal.

And
False prophets getting people to sell their belongings or quit their jobs for a day that doesn't come.

It's surprising the amount of people, who live in the modern 1st World, who actually get suckered into these things.
I blame it all on 'pre-tribulation' theology. It causes people to act and speak crazy.

When the world undergoes the 'beginning of the end', you will know it. You won't need to find it hidden in something cryptic or theorize it, it will be evident to all those with a basic knowledge of the Apocalyptic scripture.

Right now, there is really nothing to suppose that the End Time is immanent due to Islam. We have experienced far worse, in reality. It's only because we're living in the most peaceful era of human history right now that it seems like recent events are so bad.
 

whitestone

Well-known member
That's if your definition of the mark, the number etc. lined up with the "events" that could be other than you see them.....

We can look back and see Israel became a nation after nearly 2,000 years of dispersion. None would have imagined that was even a possibility. The desert now blooms.....the temple mount is being restored.....Israel is surrounded and hated. Looking back is how we can see these things. Discerning what can happen that will cause us to rethink what we had assumed we understood is not so easy.

That is a good observation,,,"there sits Israel",,none of the rest of the prophecies could begin to unfold until then. But as I can see you understand that now they can,,,
 

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
There is a lot in the Bible about this:

Jeremiah 29:14
14 And I will be found of you, saith the Lord: and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations, and from all the places whither I have driven you, saith the Lord; and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive.​


I don't see how this is not about bringing the captivity back from all the provinces of Babylon to build Jerusalem in preparation for Christ.
 

Elia

Well-known member
Bs"d

2000 years ago the end was already near:

Laten we eens kijken naar de profetische kwaliteiten van Jezus. In Matteus 4:17 claimt hij dat het koninkrijk der hemelen nabij is. Nu, bijna 2000 jaar later, is het koninkrijk er nog steeds niet.

Deze claim van Jezus dat hij spoedig terug zal komen is dik gezaaid in het Nieuwe Testament. Kijk bijvoorbeeld in Openbaring 1:1-3, Idem 3:11, Idem 22:6, 10-12, 20. Overal hier wordt gesproken over een spoedige wederkomst, en de eerste christelijke gemeenten verwachtten de wederkomst in hun dagen, zoals we kunnen lezen in I Korinthen 7:29, Romeinen 13:11-12, en I Petrus 4:7. De reden dat de eerste christelijke gemeenten de wederkomst in hun dagen verwachtten is gebaseerd op hele heldere, niet mis te verstane uitspraken van Jezus. Kijk voor een indrukwekkende profetie in Marcus 13:24-30: "Maar in die dagen, na de verdrukking, zal de zon verduisterd worden en de maan zal haar glans niet geven. En de sterren zullen van de hemel vallen en de machten der hemelen zullen wankelen. En dan zullen zij de zoon des mensen zien komen op de wolken, met grote macht en heerlijkheid. En dan zal hij zijn engelen uitzenden en zijn uitverkorenen verzamelen uit de vier windstreken, van het uiterste der aarde en het uiterste des hemels. … Voorwaar, ik zeg u, dit geslacht zal geenszins voorbijgaan, voordat dit alles geschiedt." Zie ook Matt. 24:29-35 en Lukas 21:25-33

Dit geslacht is al bijna 2000 jaar geleden voorbij gegaan, en niemand heeft hem terug zien komen op de wolken om zijn koninkrijk van vrede te vestigen en zijn uitverkoren christenen in te zamelen.

In Matteus 16:27-28 zegt Jezus: "Want de zoon des mensen zal komen in de heerlijkheid des vaders, met zijn engelen, en dan zal hij een ieder vergelden naar zijn daden. Voorwaar, ik zeg u: Er zijn sommigen onder degenen, die hier staan, die de dood voorzeker niet zullen smaken, voordat zij de zoon des mensen hebben zien komen in zijn koninklijke waardigheid." Zie ook Markus 9:1

Heeft iemand hem zien komen in zijn koninklijke waardigheid? Is iedereen al vergolden naar zijn daden? Maar sommigen van hen zouden niet sterven voordat zij hem zouden hebben zien komen in zijn koninklijke waardigheid! Leven zij nog vandaag de dag? Zelfs Metuselem leefde niet zo lang!

Hieruit moeten we concluderen dat Jezus het niet best deed als profeet. Wat zegt de heilige Thora, die de enige eeuwige God gaf aan het joodse volk, hier over?

Deuteronomium 18:20-22: "Maar een profeet, die overmoedig genoeg is om in Mijn naam een woord te spreken, dat ik hem niet gebood te spreken, of die in de naam van andere goden spreekt, die profeet zal sterven. Wanneer gij nu bij uzelf mocht zeggen: Hoe onderkennen wij het woord dat de HERE niet gesproken heeft? Als een profeet spreekt in de naam des HERE en zijn woord wordt niet vervuld en komt niet uit, dan is dit een woord, dat de HERE niet gesproken heeft; in overmoed heeft de profeet het gesproken, gij zult voor hem niet vrezen."

Hier gebiedt God het joodse volk om valse profeten, dat zijn profeten wiens profetieen niet uitkomen, terecht te stellen.

Jezus is een perfect voorbeeld van een profeet wiens profetie niet uitkwam.


"Serve Y-H-W-H!

And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.”
Joshua 24:14-15
 

whitestone

Well-known member
I was always curious as to how these 79% reasoned through the scriptures concerning the end times events. I have heard many state that the tsunami in Indonesia was "one of the signs". They say the earthquake in Haiti was a plague sent because of disbelief.

In scripture the end time plagues(wrath of God) are poured out on those who receive the mark,worship the image ect.,,,But they are never placed on those who do not receive it. In scripture they are "held back" until those who are sealed with the mark of God are "sealed", Revelation 7:3 KJV .

In scripture the end time plagues are only sent to/on THOSE WHO RECEIVE THE MARK/WORSHIP THE IMAGE." http://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_1504.htm

So then there are "two groups" (1) who are sealed by God,and (2) those who are not and have the mark. of the two in scripture only the one group has the punishment/plagues poured out on them,i.e. those who worship the image or receive his mark.

So hence if the beast that was,was not yet is has not risen none can worship it yet. If the beast that was,was not yet is is in the world now then the two horned beast has also come/is,the seventh head has been/is and the 10 horns are present Revelation 13 KJV .

So if the events we see are in fact "signs of the end times",and they cannot come until after the beast,those who receive it ect. then we should discern the things that precede the signs.

So what is the mark is it our pin number we use to buy and sell that represents our name and enter with our right hand,lol? Why on earth would God send send his wrath on the earth if nobody is actually receiving the mark? Who is the beast? Who was the two horned beast? Who was the 7th head? Who are the 10 horns? Who is the little horn?,,,

One thing cannot happen until the other has taken place and 79% of Evangelist jump straight to the end without explaining the things in scripture that lead up to these "end time events".

So if these actually are the end times event's taking place and they are only sent on those who have the mark then someone should be able to explain the mark of the beast. First explain who the beast that was,was not yet is and when and where it ascended out of the pit where it was when Revelations was written Revelation 17:8 KJV and then find those who worship it. Afterwards the wrath that is poured out on those who worship it will make sense.

Check through the list,did Israel worship the beast in July of ad70,or did they not choose it and rebel? Why did God send his wrath on Israel and scatter it for 2000 years if they rebelled against Rome and refused to worship it? If Israel was punished at all its because they were not obeying something.

So what Image did Israel see as potent in ad70? They saw to see their own kingdom as potent and rebelled against Rome and were plucked up and cast into the pit, were they worshiping the Image in doing this? If we say yes then they were not in the pit yet Revelation 17:8 KJV and so this cannot fulfill the scriptures.
 

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
Does the political nation that now exists called Israel have a king sitting on David's throne or Levitical priests that offer sacrifices to God?

"For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;" Jer 33:17KJV

"Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually." Jer 33:18KJV

Or is Jesus the once-and-for-all fulfilment of all things so that we should not look for any other?
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Does the political nation that now exists called Israel have a king sitting on David's throne or Levitical priests that offer sacrifices to God?

"For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;" Jer 33:17KJV

"Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually." Jer 33:18KJV

Or is Jesus the once-and-for-all fulfilment of all things so that we should not look for any other?

Don't you know ?
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Does the political nation that now exists called Israel have a king sitting on David's throne or Levitical priests that offer sacrifices to God?

No.

"For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;" Jer 33:17KJV

"Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually." Jer 33:18KJV

Irrevocable Davidic promises.

Or is Jesus the once-and-for-all fulfilment of all things so that we should not look for any other?

The Lord Jesus fulfilled the prophecies concerning His suffering, death, burial and resurrection.

Gabriel told the Lord's mother Mary that God would give Him David's throne and that He would rule over the house of Jacob/Israel, which is in accord with Messianic prophecy.

Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.



Peter agrees at Pentecost and states that Christ was raised to sit on David's throne.

Begs the question, what is the Scriptural definition of David's throne and over what does it rule?
On the definition of Scripture, how is one justified in claiming that David's throne is now in heaven? David's throne was never in heaven and nowhere does scripture anywhere indicate that it has been transferred to heaven.

Am I to believe the plain sense of Scripture or am I to believe someone's allegorical imposition on Scripture?
 
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George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
No.



Irrevocable Davidic promises.



The Lord Jesus fulfilled the prophecies concerning His suffering, death, burial and resurrection.

Gabriel told the Lord's mother Mary that God would give Him David's throne and that He would rule over the house of Jacob/Israel, which is in accord with Messianic prophecy.

Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.



Peter agrees at Pentecost and states that Christ was raised to sit on David's throne.

Begs the question, what is the Scriptural definition of David's throne and over what does it rule?
On the definition of Scripture, how is one justified in claiming that David's throne is now in heaven? David's throne was never in heaven and nowhere does scripture anywhere indicate that it has been transferred to heaven.

Am I to believe the plain sense of Scripture or am I to believe someone's allegorical imposition on Scripture?

The only problem I have with it is what do we do with the 400 odd years between Zedekiah's death and the birth of Christ? I do not buy into British-Israelism in the slightest.

I have not solved this issue to my satisfaction.
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
The only problem I have with it is what do we do with the 400 odd years between Zedekiah's death and the birth of Christ? I do not buy into British-Israelism in the slightest.

I have not solved this issue to my satisfaction.

1Ki 8:25 Therefore now, LORD God of Israel, keep with thy servant David my father that thou promisedst him, saying, There shall not fail thee a man in my sight to sit on the throne of Israel; so that thy children take heed to their way, that they walk before me as thou hast walked before me.

British Israelism inteprets this verse and the others which affirm the same to say that it means that David's throne must be occupied continuously by one of David's descendents.
It obviously does not mean that because, as you say, after Zedekiah's death there has been an absence from the throne.

Then, one must also consider the curse on Jeconiah's descendents.
One will find Jeconiah listed in Matthew's geneology of chapter one as being a descendant of David through Solomon and down to Joseph, the 'legal' parent of the Lord Jesus. Of course, if Joseph had been the literal parent, the Lord Jesus would be ineligible to sit on David's throne. The virgin conception and birth bypasses the curse and makes the Lord Jesus the only possible heir to the throne of David. This clearly answers the false doctrine of British Israelism(and others), for it is impossible for anyone other than Christ Jesus to occupy the throne of David.

Christ takes His rightful throne at His second coming:

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
 

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
1Ki 8:25 Therefore now, LORD God of Israel, keep with thy servant David my father that thou promisedst him, saying, There shall not fail thee a man in my sight to sit on the throne of Israel; so that thy children take heed to their way, that they walk before me as thou hast walked before me.

British Israelism inteprets this verse and the others which affirm the same to say that it means that David's throne must be occupied continuously by one of David's descendents.
It obviously does not mean that because, as you say, after Zedekiah's death there has been an absence from the throne.

Then, one must also consider the curse on Jeconiah's descendents.
One will find Jeconiah listed in Matthew's geneology of chapter one as being a descendant of David through Solomon and down to Joseph, the 'legal' parent of the Lord Jesus. Of course, if Joseph had been the literal parent, the Lord Jesus would be ineligible to sit on David's throne. The virgin conception and birth bypasses the curse and makes the Lord Jesus the only possible heir to the throne of David. This clearly answers the false doctrine of British Israelism(and others), for it is impossible for anyone other than Christ Jesus to occupy the throne of David.

Christ takes His rightful throne at His second coming:

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

The only way I can see this is in light of Jesus being always 'available' to occupy the throne in that He is eternally at hand.

If I interpret this verse such that: "For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel" (because Jesus is that designated man and is forever available to fill that roll so that nothing is wanting of David's hope of God's promise; yet it pleased God, in the fullness of time, to bring forth His Son), then I don't have a problem with it - Jesus has the interregnum period covered.

We would surely disagree on this, but I see Jesus taking that throne at His first advent. I see it as an incorruptible throne called by Jesus the Kingdom of God ruled by spirit/truth and we should not be looking for a physical one.

But regardless of when Jesus takes possession of the throne, we can agree that He is the only 'man' of whom it can be said; He is the only rightful heir who is/was always alive and available to be crowned.
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
The only way I can see this is in light of Jesus being always 'available' to occupy the throne in that He is eternally at hand.

He is definitely eternally at hand and He is presently sitting at the right hand of the Father, in the Father's throne.

If I interpret this verse such that: "For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel" (because Jesus is that designated man and is forever available to fill that roll so that nothing is wanting of David's hope of God's promise; yet it pleased God, in the fullness of time, to bring forth His Son), then I don't have a problem with it - Jesus has the interregnum period covered.

That's acceptable to me......I think....anyway mostly.

We would surely disagree on this, but I see Jesus taking that throne at His first advent. I see it as an incorruptible throne called by Jesus the Kingdom of God ruled by spirit/truth and we should not be looking for a physical one.

Yes, we disagree on that. My understanding according to what I see in Scripture is that the Lord Jesus is presently seated in the Father's throne and will one day return to sit on the throne promised Him....David's throne.

But regardless of when Jesus takes possession of the throne, we can agree that He is the only 'man' of whom it can be said; He is the only rightful heir who is/was always alive and available to be crowned.

Amen!

I appreciate the time, effort and thought that you put into writing your posts!
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
Does anyone believe that 1st century Christians thought the end times were near?

Paul did not and he is our apostle....the others did but shouldn't have.
This is the connection with which Peter wrote "our brother Paul writes many things hard to be understood...."

Paul shows in 2 Thess that certain events must take place [which have not yet taken place] before "that day"

Paul had his doctrine by direct revelation.
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
I disagree. I believe scriptural prophecy deals almost exclusively with Christ and His kingdom.

But His kingdom IS Israel so far as it's earthly part is...there is no prophecy in heaven....we are made fellow citizens of the Commonwealth of Israel, partakers of the promises contained in covenants....yet without the law but in Christ.

He is STILL King of the Jews
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
I'm a middle-aged man who was raised on a steady diet of books by Hal Lindsey, Jack Van Impe, and the like. The 1980s were supposed to be "the countdown to Armageddon". Israel was founded in 1948 and "that generation shall not pass away until all things are fulfilled". A biblical generation is 40 years, we were told. 1948 plus 40 is 1988. That was supposed to be a big year, but we're still here. After 1988, it was supposed to be 1991, 1993, 1998, 2000, 2008, etc...

We futurists keep hoping for 1 Thessalonians 4:16, but we keep getting Matthew 24:6. I'm afraid that Matthew 24:6 is what we're going to keep getting for a long, long time to come.

Those false prophets have succeeded then into lulling you into a sort of apathy...they were designed to do that

Hal Lindsay pughhh
 
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