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So you're saying when we sin, we "reject God"?

Yep, and it's the body that dies. Body, soul, spirit. Man is condemned to death when he sins, but until the judgment.....

Yeah, I see now if we happen to come in after the thread started, we are subject to ridicule. I was actually interested in what Derf might be saying. Had I known you would ride roughshod over anyone who showed some interest and wanted to post, I'd have bowed down to your most excellent glory...

My proof for what I say is in the fact that sinners (dead in sin) can still respond the Gospel of Salvation. That seems to be more than you can comprehend. Quite Calvin of you.

This right here is undoubtedly why TOL is not vibrant anymore.

Once again, you're avoiding the issue of what "spiritually dead" actually means. I totally understand that our spirit will continue to exist after our body dies. I'm merely asserting that our spirit does not actually die when we sin.

But you said, "yes, your dead spirit can respond to the Holy Spirits call and be made alive by the Holy Spirit" If our "dead spirit" can respond, then it isn't really dead, is it? This is the point I'm trying to make. I understand the verse, but it does not say anyone is "spiritually dead"...

Oh wait. I liked your dead but still functioning answer better, except it doesn't really make sense. That is why I say dead in trespasses in sins in NOT talking about being spiritually dead, but being Condemned to death for our sins. But Jesus was talking about the man's dead (physically)...

Ah, so how do you see that our spirit was dead but still functioning? As much as I love you, way 2 go, that seems like sort of a non-answer. Wouldn't that be condemned rather than "spiritually dead" as so many assume? Ah, now I get your reference for the soul. Thanks for clarifying.

Because we respond to the Gospel while we are still "dead in our sins".

I like the painting in the Cistine (sp) chapel. Man reaching up as God is reaching down.

Well, we know the indwelling Holy Spirit could not come down until Jesus had resurrected, so what Luke was speaking of there, I'm not sure. Was it what the early church experienced, or was it what Paul preached where the Holy Spirit baptizes us into the body of Christ? Yes, and in the end...

@ way 2 go Eph. 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, We could not be "spiritually dead" if we 1. "heard the word of truth (gospel) 2. "in whom...

That's the exact opposite of being spiritually dead. For he that is (spiritually) dead is freed from sin? That only proves what I'm saying. The "spirit of wisdom and revelation" is not the Holy Spirit. And, yes the souls under the altar. What's the point you're trying to make here?

As those who first were saved under Paul's Gospel. He went to the Jews first and then the Gentiles. Paul was letting those people know that when they believed in the dbr of Christ, they would enter into Christ. Christ in you, the hope of glory.

There is only one "body of Christ" which believers are baptized into when we believe in Jesus's work on the Cross. Most of the promises, that I know of, are for the nation of Israel. The land promises being paramount.

I don't believe the church will be on earth during the millennium kingdom, for we are a spiritual people. By it's been a long time since I've studied that. There is just so much I can take in.

Paul is letting the Gentiles in Eph. know they are able to enter into the body of Christ through his gospel. Eph. 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that...

He's been bought and payed for like the rest.

That certainly makes us remember how great God is. Man has a tendency to try to build a tower to God. It's something we need to be reminded of.