Is Faith Without Works Dead?

[Right Divider]

In Acts 1:18."Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out." and in Mark 27:5.."And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself." Notice that in Mark's verse we have a time and date that He hanged himself.....In Acts 1:18 happened around 40-50 days after the Resurrection of Jesus. The question there is: Could not the rope that hung him broke for some spilling him on the ground face first ? The scripture of GOD tells these things happened. You either believe God's Words or you do not...I take it that you do not Believe in God's Word as you have labored the Bible is in err. Many of the contradictions above are the regular talking points for a Atheist. I understand them, I don't understand why you believe the Bible is in err but you also believe the Mid Acts, Paul and Jesus has or will save you? Mind boggling!

We don't believe that the Bible is in err, you are just LYING about us to yourself.

 

[Clete]

Yes, exactly: At least we see apparent contradictions.

My question was to rather give example and then ask: "What do you mean by no contradiction?"

I think rather, we mean "The Bible is consistently true, even if it records something like a lie" rather than that it doesn't contain apparent contradiction. The first book in the bible contains a contradiction 3 chapters in: "Has God really said..." (the serpent contradicts God and is recorded in the Bible accurately).

In this case, one might wonder what you mean "the Bible has no contradiction." Then, we'd also ask: Is there a contradiction between Jew and gentile (Acts 15) in what each was to observe? Etc. Etc. -Lon

I always imagined him hanging there dead until the rope or the tree broke and then he laid there, dead and bloated until he burst open.

 

[Bladerunner]

He hanged himself. Which means there was something tall he had to use.

He fell headlong, meaning instead of jumping feet-first, he likely let himself fall with the noose around his neck.

The resulting whiplash killed him, and ripped him open, and his entrails gushed out as a result.

I'm not sure how you could get anything other than that from those passages... The text doesn't say the rope broke. It says Judas burst open. "Burst open" is the word used. ἐλάκησεν

The phrase is:

"headlong" "having fallen" "he burst open" "in [the] middle"

very Good, yet the rope had to come undone some way. It is just speculation what happened as we are not told...Yet, GOD did tell us this much so we can take it to the bank to be true.

 

[Bladerunner]

We don't believe that the Bible is in err, you are just LYING about us to yourself.

this is what I have come away with speaking to you....Glad to hear that you believe every WORD, Yott and tittle in the Bible.

 

[Bladerunner]

Yes, exactly: At least we see apparent contradictions.

My question was to rather give example and then ask: "What do you mean by no contradiction?"

I think rather, we mean "The Bible is consistently true, even if it records something like a lie" rather than that it doesn't contain apparent contradiction. The first book in the bible contains a contradiction 3 chapters in: "Has God really said..." (the serpent contradicts God and is recorded in the Bible accurately).

In this case, one might wonder what you mean "the Bible has no contradiction." Then, we'd also ask: Is there a contradiction between Jew and gentile (Acts 15) in what each was to observe? Etc. Etc. -Lon

"Yea, hath God said" The serpent "contradicts" (in this case, meaning 'To assert to be untrue')- agreed but then by the def provided, a contradiction it was not.

I teach the 'dispensations' (7 of them) found in Bible are different time periods where GOD interacts with the people on Earth. Many refine this to Jews only. Yet, I have found it includes all peoples of earth. Acts 15:1 is a perfect example. God interacted with the people of Moses (OT) differently that those of the NT. While those that rejected Jesus remanded themselves to the Laws of Moses even though the Law and prophets were only until John (mat 11:13). The Gospel of Jesus Christ had its beginning in the NT which was rejected by Pharisees and Saducees. Their rejection would damn them and their fellow brethern to hell during this 5th and 6th dispensations.

Hope you have a good rest of the day Lon. thanks for the conversation.

 

[Lon]

I always imagined him hanging there dead until the rope or the tree broke and then he laid there, dead and bloated until he burst open.

That is the way I'd heard it too.

 

[JudgeRightly]

very Good, yet the rope had to come undone some way.

The Bible says nothing about the rope coming undone.

It is just speculation what happened as we are not told... Yet, GOD did tell us this much so we can take it to the bank to be true.

God told us that he hanged himself and that he burst open in the middle.

It doesn't say anything else. It doesn't need to.

 

[Nick M]

there are no contradictions in the Bible

This thread exists because the Lord Jesus Christ in his earthly ministry stated to keep the law of Moses. And when he returned to earth in for an unprophetic event, stopping Saul of Tarsus, he told him differently. That it he whole point of this thread. If you don't want people in Christ to pick at you, don't say stupid things like you just did. The contradictions are the whole reason for all Bible debate. God tells different people different things at different times in history.

 

[Nick M]

From the Mid Acts concern: Specifically, Do Jews and gentiles have separate expectations from God, today? Back when the bible was written? Were gentiles allowed into the inner sanctuary at the temple?

Paul replied "the scripture says"...

28 Then he said to them, “You know how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation. But God has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

It was against the law of Moses, which of course was authored by God, not Moses.

 

[Clete]

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[Right Divider]

this is what I have come away with speaking to you....

You didn't get that idea from what I wrote... you got it from your twisted mind.

 

[Bladerunner]

That is the way I'd heard it too.

The idea being that God's is true. Both happened. This brings up another discipline of the Bible that I have not heard on this forum. Will leave it for another time.

 

[Bladerunner]

The Bible says nothing about the rope coming undone.



God told us that he hanged himself and that he burst open in the middle.

It doesn't say anything else. It doesn't need to.

Agreed that it does not need to. Yet, for those that call it a contradiction, it needed to be said...and you said it well. Thanks

 

[Nick M]

28 Then he said to them, “You know how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation.

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

In case the few of you don't know the context, I posted Acts 10, where Peter learns the law he knows being taken down. There was a change, it is a contradiction if you just read the passages by themselves with no context. Clete showed not only is the wall taken down, there isn't even a Jew or Greek in Christ. God has dealt with people differently at different times.

 

[Bladerunner]

This thread exists because the Lord Jesus Christ in his earthly ministry stated to keep the law of Moses. And when he returned to earth in for an unprophetic event, stopping Saul of Tarsus, he told him differently. That it he whole point of this thread. If you don't want people in Christ to pick at you, don't say stupid things like you just did. The contradictions are the whole reason for all Bible debate. God tells different people different things at different times in history.

I guess my idea of a contradiction is different from yours. To be clear, as you stated that Jesus told the Jews He was there to keep the law of Moses. This time period of Jesus was unique as Jesus was a normal human man at this time. Had He strayed outside of what He had to told the Jews up to His Crucifixion, I too would call it a contradiction, but we both know He did not break that line. Paul was after His Ascension, a different marked time period.

 

[Bladerunner]

In case the few of you don't know the context, I posted Acts 10, where Peter learns the law he knows being taken down. There was a change, it is a contradiction if you just read the passages by themselves with no context. Clete showed not only is the wall taken down, there isn't even a Jew or Greek in Christ. God has dealt with people differently at different times.

Nick:

 

[Nick M]

To be clear, as you stated that Jesus told the Jews He was there to keep the law of Moses.

Peter at Pentecost repeated it. James in his letter repeated it. Leaders of the circumcision that BELIEVED repeated it in Acts 15.

James said Abraham was justified by offering up his son. He didn't say it was evidence of his faith, something you don't understand in the prior paragraph. He said Abraham was justified by works.

Paul said by no works be man justified.

On the surface it is a contradiction. But really it is God dealing differently with different people. Paul tells you why. To drive Israel to jealousy, as they are required to keep the law of Moses. If they don't, the times of refreshing will not come for the nation of Israel.

 

[Nick M]

Paul was after His Ascension, a different marked time period.

Correct. We are justified by the cross, but the starting point for the church is with Paul. Paul explicitly states this.

 

[Nick M]

James in his letter repeated it.

Do you remember Sozo? Of course you do. While discussing this same topic....15 years ago he said James was wrong. He was reading the Bible as it states, not what he wants it to say. This is why Paul says divide the gospel. Do not try to reconcile it. Do not apply the law of Moses to you. No water baptism, none of it. You can take communion. Paul says we proclaim his death until his return.

 

[Bladerunner]

In case the few of you don't know the context, I posted Acts 10, where Peter learns the law he knows being taken down. There was a change, it is a contradiction if you just read the passages by themselves with no context. Clete showed not only is the wall taken down, there isn't even a Jew or Greek in Christ. God has dealt with people differently at different times.

Nick: Jesus is fully GOD and Fully Man. That man is Jewish. and what is wrong with God dealing with people differently in the dispensations that are apparent in the Bible?