young girl tells "friend" to kill himself. Is she responsible?

[Granite]

Lots of people survive suicidal thoughts, too.


You're missing the point.

Rich coming from you.

 

[Rusha]

You seem to be questioning our right of freedom of speech. Do you think this kind of speech should be illegal? How do you differentiate it from speech that should be allowed? And who do you purpose be in charge of determining this?

I merely am pointing out motives and results of such. However, feel free to answer that question yourself. Should it be legally permissible to advise another person on how to commit a murder, rape, assault, robbery, etc.?

Let's say this woman believed that suicide is a good thing because there are too many humans on Earth, or because she believes death is a far superior state than living. So she wants to "preach" her beliefs to others, particularly those who are contemplating suicide. Should she be denied her freedom of speech because you disagree?

I never suggested she should be denied freedom of speech. I am merely suggesting she should be treated as the intentional train wreck she is ...

The question is ... why do you find it necessary to come up with an extremely unlikely scenario in order to absolve this girl from what she did? You respond as though she is the victim. She is the person who advised the arsonist to not give up and told him where he could find a can of gasoline and a set of matches.

No ... she was clever and sadistic enough to not physically lift a finger. I am just suggesting she be treated, by her peers, according to her own actions. She SHOULD feel guilty and treated as though she is guilty. Otherwise, she will continue to view this situation as a game.

Should she be denied because she preached to "weak people" who are contemplating suicide? If this is part of her religion, should she be denied her right to proselytize her religious beliefs?
That's a very good question, and example. But I can ask the same thing: just how far are YOU willing to take it? If encouraging suicide is illegal, why isn't encouraging other potentially deadly behavior illegal, like drinking alcohol, smoking tobacco, racing cars and mountain climbing?

I already suggested how far I am *willing to take it*. There is a difference between being morally responsible as compared to legally responsible.

So, no, she shouldn't be charged ... but rather treated like the wretch she is via her peers and community. Is that a simple enough answer for you?

 

[GFR7]

I think it has to be noted that this was a very unusual incident: How many young or old people have told their best friend when suicidal, ways to do it, and gave them pep talks to continue on when they expressed sincere thoughts of abandoning their plan?

I think it was Rusha who pointed out that Charles Manson never went near the Tate or Bianca houses; he wasn't present at the crimes and in no way participated. Indeed, he has for years insisted that he didn't break the law, and if one views it in the literal sense, that's true.

What he did do was encourage his followers to commit the murders, and gave them the addresses of the houses. Not too different from what this girl did, and he's been locked away forever.......

 

[Granite]

I think it has to be noted that this was a very unusual incident: How many young or old people have told their best friend when suicidal, ways to do it, and gave them pep talks to continue on when they expressed sincere thoughts of abandoning their plan?

It'd be impossible to say considering dead men tell no tales and social media's enabled this situation to come to a head. I mean...think about it.

 

[GFR7]

It'd be impossible to say considering dead men tell no tales and social media's enabled this situation to come to a head. I mean...think about it.

Hmm, you're correct. :think:
I suppose most people assume noone would do this to a friend.

In any case, now that she's been exposed (and true, she may be one of many) how many people would trust her to babysit, or have faith in her for other things? To me, she has a serious character disorder. This can't be the only thing she was so "off" about.

 

[PureX]

I merely am pointing out motives and results of such. However, feel free to answer that question yourself. Should it be legally permissible to advise another person on how to commit a murder, rape, assault, robbery, etc.?

It is, and it should be. Otherwise freedom of thought and speech are non-existent.

The question is ... why do you find it necessary to come up with an extremely unlikely scenario in order to absolve this girl from what she did?

I'm not "absolving" her of anything. I'm simply pointing out the irrationality that you all seem so intent on overlooking.

... she was clever and sadistic enough to not physically lift a finger. I am just suggesting she be treated, by her peers, according to her own actions. She SHOULD feel guilty and treated as though she is guilty. Otherwise, she will continue to view this situation as a game.

You guys sure are good at reading minds, and foretelling the future.

 

[Rusha]

I'm not "absolving" her of anything. I'm simply pointing out the irrationality that you all seem so intent on overlooking.
You guys sure are good at reading minds, and foretelling the future.

Oh ... unlike yourself, who doesn't read minds?

Feel free to point out how advising someone with the specifics of how to kill themselves is morally acceptable.

 

[Granite]

It is, and it should be. Otherwise freedom of thought and speech are non-existent.
I'm not "absolving" her of anything. I'm simply pointing out the irrationality that you all seem so intent on overlooking.
You guys sure are good at reading minds, and foretelling the future.

Get over yourself, why don'tcha. Your little self-righteous shtick here hasn't fooled anybody.

 

[PureX]

Oh ... unlike yourself, who doesn't read minds?

Feel free to point out how advising someone with the specifics of how to kill themselves is morally acceptable.

I never said it was morally acceptable. C'mon, read the posts, at least!

 

[Angel4Truth]

Lets say this chick breaks up with a guy and he wont leave her alone, he keeps following her, calling her, etc... after she tells him to get lost.

Then in desperation the guy threatens suicide to try to get back with her, and says if she wont, hes going to do it - after all this, she says "go ahead, im not geting back with you"

Should she be locked up if he does it?

 

[GFR7]

Lets say this chick breaks up with a guy and he wont leave her alone, he keeps following her, calling her, etc... after she tells him to get lost.

Then in desperation the guy threatens suicide to try to get back with her, and says if she wont, hes going to do it - after all this, she says "go ahead, im not geting back with you"

Should she be locked up if he does it?

No, she should not. But this story is different.

He was a close friend, not a boyfriend.

He was not bugging her, threatening her, or harrassing her as in your example.

He was suicidal, and she suggested ways he could do it, and then encouraged him to follow through when he was having doubts. Very different from your above example, which most people would not feel is as bad as what actually occurred.

 

[Rusha]

Lets say this chick breaks up with a guy and he wont leave her alone, he keeps following her, calling her, etc... after she tells him to get lost.

Then in desperation the guy threatens suicide to try to get back with her, and says if she wont, hes going to do it - after all this, she says "go ahead, im not geting back with you"

Should she be locked up if he does it?

Outside of an extreme situation, I don't believe words are enough of a reason to be locked up.

The example you are using is one that I see as completely different. From the info available, she was supposed to be his friend. The other is the beginning of harassment and the person would have to be fearful, frustrated and vulnerable. Also, the person would be trying to manipulate someone into getting back with them.

I have actually been in a situation where a gun was involved and rather than continuing to talk the person down, I grabbed my infant son and pregnant self and high tailed it out of the house.

In hindsight, should I have done more? Of course. I should have driven a safe distance, found a phone booth and called 911 in hopes that the idiot would have been 5150'd. My excuse ... I was young, hormonal and felt I needed to protect my son above all else.

My opinion on what this girl did is because I see malice ... and also because I empathize so much with this kid's parents.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Outside of an extreme situation, I don't believe words are enough of a reason to be locked up.

The example you are using is one that I see as completely different. From the info available, she was supposed to be his friend. The other is the beginning of harassment and the person would have to be fearful, frustrated and vulnerable. Also, the person would be trying to manipulate someone into getting back with them.

I have actually been in a situation where a gun was involved and rather than continuing to talk the person down, I grabbed my infant son and pregnant self and high tailed it out of the house.

In hindsight, should I have done more? Of course. I should have driven a safe distance, found a phone booth and called 911 in hopes that the idiot would have been 5150'd. My excuse ... I was young, hormonal and felt I needed to protect my son above all else.

My opinion on what this girl did is because I see malice ... and also because I empathize so much with this kid's parents.

How do you know that this guy wasn't contacting her all the time and saying it and she was exasperated from hearing it so much and said it that way then hung up, and later when she didn't hear from him, frantically searched for him?

We aren't talking about an adult either. His other friends said he said it all the time and so did his own father.

Is it not possible to believe that she felt like he was manipulating her and others only for attention? You would be surprised at how many people believe that someone threatening suicide doesn't mean it, and just wants attention.

PS, i am sorry to hear what happened to you

 

[Rusha]

How do you know that this guy wasnt contacting her all the time and saying it and she was exasperated from hearing it so much and said it that way then hung up, and later when she didn't hear from him, frantically searched for him?

We arent talking about an adult either. His other friends said he said it all the time and so did his own father.

I don't. I only know what the article says. Which is why I stated she should not be criminally prosecuted.

What I DO know is that if it were my child and family member, she would be unwelcome to participate in anything that was done in memory of my loved one.

Is it not possible to believe that she felt like he was manipulating her and others only for attention? You would be surprised at how many people believe that someone threatening suicide doesn't mean it, and just wants attention.

Oh, I understand that. Still yet, in that case, I would expect them to walk away and call someone of authority.

PS, i am sorry to hear what happened to you

Thank you ... it's one of those "what doesn't kill us makes us stronger" scenarios.

 

[Angel4Truth]

No, she should not. But this story is different.

He was a close friend, not a boyfriend.

Because of who the person is, its different how?

He was not bugging her, threatening her, or harrassing her as in your example.

You know this how?

He was suicidal, and she suggested ways he could do it, and then encouraged him to follow through when he was having doubts. Very different from your above example, which most people would not feel is as bad as what actually occurred.

I see, so who is saying it and how others feel, make one guilty and the other not, even though both is telling them to do it already?

 

[Angel4Truth]

I don't. I only know what the article says. Which is why I stated she should not be criminally prosecuted.

:thumb:

What I DO know is that if it were my child and family member, she would be unwelcome to participate in anything that was done in memory of my loved one.

I agree totally.

 

[GFR7]

Because of who the person is, its different how?

You know this how?



I see, so who is saying it and how others feel, make one guilty and the other not, even though both is telling them to do it already?

From what I gathered , ( I only know what I've read in articles) he was not threatening her as in your example ("get back together with me or I'll kill myself" - very manipulative and most people rightly resent that kind of talk. Very different from, "I feel like killing myself".) From Rusha's poignant story, she seems to know the difference between the two.

 

[Angel4Truth]

From what I gathered , ( I only know what I've read in articles) he was not threatening her as in your example ("get back together with me or I'll kill myself" - very manipulative and most people rightly resent that kind of talk. Very different from, "I feel like killing myself".) From Rusha's poignant story, she seems to know the difference between the two.

So now they have to be threatening the person, and the person say "so do it already", to be innocent?

So the guy here threatening all the time do it, isnt threatening, even though he was threatening to do it, and the stalker guy was also threatening to do it....

hmmm

 

[Rusha]

From Rusha's poignant story, she seems to know the difference between the two.

To be honest, I was young, hormonal and scared. IF that were to happen in the present, I would try to seek intervention on his behalf.

 

[GFR7]

To be honest, I was young, hormonal and scared. IF that were to happen in the present, I would try to seek intervention on his behalf.

Yes, I understand you would do differently now. Young and pregnant and with a young child is a massively vulnerable state and you hadn't had time to figure all out yet.

The important thing is: I doubt anyone could possibly put your actions then in the same category as this girl's. You were scared and trying to protect children: She appears to have had some sinister plan up her sleeve.

I don't know if she should be prosecuted to the extent she is, but something is off.

I think if she hadn't:
a. suggested ways to do it
b. said "get back in" when he texted her his second thoughts, then no one would be so appalled at her. To me, it's those 2 things , in a nutshell.