And you have to believe God before you can be saved according to scripture.
You must be saved to believe the Gospel !
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If you understand it then explain it.
How could such a God be just?
Explain it to us, Nanja!
You won't because you can't.
beloved57
Well-known member
A lost person cant believe God, the Gospel is hidden to the Lost which results in their believing not the Gospel 2 Cor 4:3-4
you must believe to be saved;
John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+3&version=KJV
Romans 10:9-13
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+10&version=KJV
John 3:16
King James Version
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+3&version=KJV
Romans 10:9-13
King James Version
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+10&version=KJV
Chapter verse.
Have you noticed that literally NO ONE has said otherwise?
Wrong.
Rather, YOU sell MAN short on being responsible for his actions.
You say saved to believe.
Scripture says:
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” - Romans 10:9-13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans10:9-13&version=NKJV
You're wrong. Scripture is right.
Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we do not lose heart.But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake.For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. - 2 Corinthians 4:1-6 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Corinthians4:1-6&version=NKJV
In other words, you're ripping a phrase out of its context.
Also consider the possibility that the lost are covering their eyes...
Correction: A lost person who hasn't heard the gospel cannot believe in God.
However, a lost person who has heard the gospel might believe, because the gospel is sufficient to lead anyone who hears it to faith and repentance.
Only to those who have not heard, and to those who have rejected it.
You really need to use proper english. This "their believing not...," etc., stuff is not how people talk today. You risk leading someone to rejecting scripture simply because they think you're speaking gibberish. It's intentional, and intentionally obfuscatory.
You cannot believe (in) something that you haven't heard (of). You cannot believe in something that is hidden from you, hidden either by outside means, or by simply hiding it from yourself.
The Bible does say a lost person cannot understand the Bible but the Bible also says the reason the lost person cannot understand the Bible is because he will not turn to God. The Bible never says the lost sinner cannot turn to God whether he wants to or not. Furthermore, even the elect cannot do right if they are unwilling to repent of their sins after they are chosen in Christ.
Galatians 5:17
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
The reason sinners cannot stand before God is not that they were made incapable of doing so, but because they turn away from their God after having been exposed to His truth.
Ezra 9:15
O Lord God of Israel, thou art righteous: for we remain yet escaped, as it is this day: behold, we are before thee in our trespasses: for we cannot stand before thee because of this.
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beloved57
Well-known member
The scripture says that the Gospel is hid to them which are lost 2 Cor 4:3
The Scripture is hidden from those who refuse to humble themselves before God because God resists the proud. The error Calvinists make is assuming the Scriptures are hidden from rebels because God never intended to give them any opportunity at all to come to Him for help, which is simply a lie.
God turns against those who turn against Him because they turn against Him, not because God made them incapable of ever entering into any understanding of Him to begin with.
2 Chronicles 24:20
And the Spirit of God came upon Zechariah the son of Jehoiada the priest, which stood above the people, and said unto them, Thus saith God, Why transgress ye the commandments of the Lord, that ye cannot prosper? because ye have forsaken the Lord, he hath also forsaken you.
Stop acting like a broken record, B57.
beloved57
Well-known member
Its the appropriate response, nothing has been said to overturn the fact that the Gospel is hid to the lost !
Nobody can convince a stubborn rebel he is wrong if he is deceived and proud of his erroneous interpretations of Scripture.
It is hidden because of their unbelief.You ignore a mountain of scripture to stay in your error, sadly.
No, it's not.
Don't handle the word of God deceitfully, B57.
@beloved57 Here is the correction to what you are repeating.
Lon
Well-known member
I understand your point, say it better.
Nanja
Well-known member
Perfectly stated Brother !
Lon
Well-known member
"Saved BEFORE Saved" isn't the way to say it. Even in your double-pred theology, there never was a 'before.' "ALWAYS" is in YOUR theology so even for you two, this said terribly. Don't double-down. Say it better and scripturally, else not at all? My two-cents.
Jesus told Nicodemus that he needed to be born again or else he would not enter into heaven, even though Jesus knew Nicodemus was already one of the elect.
John 3
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Right Divider
Body part
One of the great things about the KJV (or KJB) is that it preserves the SINGULAR and PLURAL personal pronouns that would otherwise get lost in English.
THEE is SINGULAR.
YE is PLURAL.
Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus (SINGULARLY) about those (PLURAL) that must be born again.
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
I agree, I think we lose something by using "you" for both singular and plural. Other languages retain this distinction, I think that it promotes ambiguity and confusion to have abandoned them.
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