WOOT WOOT DONALD TRUMP IN MOBILE ALABAMA NOW!

[rocketman]

You admit to his ego and to the ugliness he's exhibited (ugliness unworthy of the office), and you allow that it very well may be the case that he's more into himself than he would be for his hypothetical constituents - and you're willing to set aside all the red flags as to the motivations of the base supporting him - because you're mad at the current state of government. Think about what that means. I mean that sincerely.

Wow Anna, you have taken my viewpoint on why the man is soaring with support and managed to turn that into an argument that I support him? Really he is not the man I want to see as president either but, I am fascinated that you & other liberals cannot understand the attraction that Trump is enjoying. I have not set aside any red flags but, if it comes down to Trump vs Hillary yes, I will vote for Trump...in a heartbeat. If it is Trump as the nominee yes, I will vote for the man because I am sick & tired of the direction you progressives have taken this once great nation. I don't think Trump will go the distance anyway, I believe that the nation will grow weary of his nonsense but, who will be able to fill that void that is electable is anyones guess...it certainly won't be a Jeb Bush.

 

[chrysostom]

That's an ugly post, rocketman. I'm sorry I have to say it, I wish I didn't have to say it.

you have to say it

 

[rocketman]

That's an ugly post, rocketman. I'm sorry I have to say it, I wish I didn't have to say it.

I have to leave right now, but I'll be back later to continue this, it needs a better reply than I have time for right now.

Ugly to you who continues to try to paint a nice face on it...I don't share your view in the least on illegal immigration in fact I would say it is a bane on our society. I don't think what I said is ugly to the family of the woman that was raped & bludgeoned to death with a hammer by an illegal here locally, or to the family of Kaitlyn Schallhorn murdered by an illegal in S.F recently, or any other legitimate citizen that has lost a loved one or been a victim due to illegal alien lawlessness, and there are so many more acts of lawlessness that don't make the news. Your view is the minority view of this issue Anna, and the reason why people are fed up with the politicians that refuse to address it in a meaningful way. It is not a question of whether some of the invaders are good or not Anna because many of them are good people, and seek a better life as you say, it is a question of whether the law is put aside for some and enforced for others, we are either a nation of laws or we are not.

 

[annabenedetti]

Wow Anna, you have taken my viewpoint on why the man is soaring with support and managed to turn that into an argument that I support him? Really he is not the man I want to see as president either but, I am fascinated that you & other liberals cannot understand the attraction that Trump is enjoying. I have not set aside any red flags but, if it comes down to Trump vs Hillary yes, I will vote for Trump...in a heartbeat. If it is Trump as the nominee yes, I will vote for the man because I am sick & tired of the direction you progressives have taken this once great nation. I don't think Trump will go the distance anyway, I believe that the nation will grow weary of his nonsense but, who will be able to fill that void that is electable is anyones guess...it certainly won't be a Jeb Bush.

Well, yes. Voting for someone is supporting someone, so why you'd think you weren't supporting him is something you'd have to explain before I'd understand how you could view it any other way.

 

[annabenedetti]

Ugly to you who continues to try to paint a nice face on it...I don't share your view in the least on illegal immigration in fact I would say it is a bane on our society. I don't think what I said is ugly to the family of the woman that was raped & bludgeoned to death with a hammer by an illegal here locally, or to the family of Kaitlyn Schallhorn murdered by an illegal in S.F recently, or any other legitimate citizen that has lost a loved one or been a victim due to illegal alien lawlessness, and there are so many more acts of lawlessness that don't make the news. Your view is the minority view of this issue Anna, and the reason why people are fed up with the politicians that refuse to address it in a meaningful way. It is not a question of whether some of the invaders are good or not Anna because many of them are good people, and seek a better life as you say, it is a question of whether the law is put aside for some and enforced for others, we are either a nation of laws or we are not.

Cherry-picking your crime stats doesn't help your case. Or do you think crimes aren't committed by "legitimate citizens?" I don't think my view is the minority view at all. Remember, you're the one who's collecting your paycheck in this state, getting your money's worth out of it before you leave it in your rear view mirror. I'll still be here, coexisting with people who I know came here or their parents came here without documents, who are law abiding, productive members of society who work hard and pay their taxes.

What a pretty picture you draw of what is probably the biggest ugly problem in the U.S., and I wish I could say I share your vision of the lawbreakers that populate the sanctuary cities where you & I live. In reality their presence has not made my city better in fact it has brought it down in many respects to the third world toilet they they came from. This in itself is why illegal aliens have a bad rap...they did not come to become Americans, they came to convert America into the corrupt toilet they fled from. There has been no attempt to assimilate and because people see this invasion for the negative that it is Anna, Trump's "Nativism Bray" as you say, has become a clarion call for a nation weary with this lawlessness & inaction to fix it. You can bag on the guy for bring the issue front & center, you cannot however blame the supporters for backing the only one willing to attack this issue head on...it is not as if lawmakers on both sides have pandered to this group instead of doing as the voters have requested over & over.

My picture is better than yours, looking down your nose as you do on people coming here in search of a better life. "Third world toilet..." That's ugly, rocketman. So is saying "they came to convert America into the corrupt toilet they fled from." Your gross overstatement: "There has been no attempt to assimilate" is just plain wrong, and yeah, I do blame Trump for firing up the xenophobes, nativists and bigots among us. Trump can't follow through on any of his threats - they're all hot air - but if he did and they were somehow all rounded up and shipped back to Mexico, this state would fall apart. It's supported in large measure on the backs of the minimum-wage immigrant workers who pick the produce and collect the eggs and process the beef that goes on your table every day.

 

[rocketman]

Well, yes. Voting for someone is supporting someone, so why you'd think you weren't supporting him is something you'd have to explain before I'd understand how you could view it any other way.

Currently my support, is for Dr. Ben Carson Anna, and if he is able to continue holding his own alongside Trump, when it reaches California he will also have my vote in the primary. This go around I will vote for any person including Trump in the general election that stops the progressive crazy train...had enough of the ride through the sewer with the left wing degenerates destroying American society. Really, I could not care any less how you, or any other person views me Anna, I will show you or others respect at the same level that you or others are willing to show to me. Your worldview & mine are completely different, and I am not going to change my viewpoints for anyones fancy but, my own... even if they conflict with yours, it is still a free country...for now.

 

[annabenedetti]

Currently my support, is for Dr. Ben Carson Anna, and if he is able to continue holding his own alongside Trump, when it reaches California he will also have my vote in the primary. This go around I will vote for any person including Trump in the general election that stops the progressive crazy train...

Again, if you vote for Trump, you're supporting Trump - and all he is and all he stands for - even though you've admitted it's ugly.

Really, I could not care any less how you, or any other person views me Anna, I will show you or others respect at the same level that you or others are willing to show to me. Your worldview & mine are completely different, and I am not going to change my viewpoints for anyones fancy but, my own... even if they conflict with yours, it is still a free country...for now.

Yes, our viewpoints are completely different and I don't expect you to change yours any more than you expect me to change mine - we're equally free to express ourselves, and so we are.

I happen to think that anyone who votes for Trump will have to set aside any number of values they'd assign to any other candidate. Whether it's women ignoring his misogyny, Hispanics ignoring his bigotry and (albeit empty) threats, social conservatives his ideological waffling, fiscal conservatives his crony capitalism, and progressives his one-percent status... there's something there for everyone, all right.

 

[rocketman]

Cherry-picking your crime stats doesn't help your case.

Not a cherry pick but, a real world stat that happened where I live. That is only one of many violent crimes that happen around me locally that can be attributed to illegal aliens.

Or do you think crimes aren't committed by "legitimate citizens?" I don't think my view is the minority view at all. Remember, you're the one who's collecting your paycheck in this state, getting your money's worth out of it before you leave it in your rear view mirror. I'll still be here, coexisting with people who I know came here or their parents came here without documents, who are law abiding, productive members of society who work hard and pay their taxes.

Certainly you are entitled to your view & I to mine...I don't see the drain on the local hospitals, education, social services, & law enforcement as being productive. So are you paying their income taxes? because if they are illegal they sure are not. Yours is a minority view and your view is in the minority...you can read about it.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...r-wall-deporting-criminal-illegal-immigrants/

My picture is better than yours, looking down your nose as you do on people coming here in search of a better life.

Be that as it may it is still against the law...period. If they want citizenship then do it the old fashioned way...apply for it legally. You are letting your raw emotions cloud logical good judgement.

"Third world toilet..." That's ugly, rocketman. So is saying "they came to convert America into the corrupt toilet they fled from." Your gross overstatement:

Hardly, you have obviously never been to anywhere but, tourist destinations in Mexico. If you do get inside of the country away from the tourist traps you will find a very different story it is dreadful, poverty stricken, dirty, not to mention quite dangerous. The country's government is corrupt from the top down and has allowed their lawlessness to depress their own people. I understand perfectly why they want to get out...I have seen it with my own eyes and it is hardly an overstatement. Really, if Americans had true compassion for the people of Mexico they would push American lawmakers to sanction Mexico until they change their corrupt ways and address the human rights atrocities right in our back yard instead of spending billions on countries on the other side of the world, and that cannot be overstated either.

"There has been no attempt to assimilate" is just plain wrong, and yeah, I do blame Trump for firing up the xenophobes, nativists and bigots among us.

Well name it? what are these great strides towards assimilation Anna? Your argument is without merit and a simple emotional response.

Trump can't follow through on any of his threats - they're all hot air - but if he did and they were somehow all rounded up and shipped back to Mexico, this state would fall apart. It's supported in large measure on the backs of the minimum-wage immigrant workers who pick the produce and collect the eggs and process the beef that goes on your table every day.

On this point I believe you are correct, I do not think logistically or legally we can deport this many people without due process for each and every one...unlike you I do respect the law. What could be done however is simply to enforce existing federal law such as e-verify, fining those that employ illegals and if illegals cannot work they will go home on their own and maybe return legally the next time. I do believe that expediting a process for immigrants to come & work in America needs to be addressed but, if the state of California or it's business owning residents have to pay more for legal workers to pick produce, or pay more for citizens to come back to the trade jobs (plumbing,concrete, drywall, mechanical, roofing etc.) that illegals have stole for a cheap wage than so be it, I care more about my American citizen brothers & sisters that are displaced & unemployed, than I do for someone destroying the living wage for everyone through cheap illegal labor. Having people off the unemployment & welfare roles will be a boon for California in taxes anyway. Seems you care more about the invaders than you do for the lives of natural citizens who cannot find jobs if it were not for illegal alien labor...and you say I am the bad guy? sheesh! your allegiances are misplaced in my view.

 

[rocketman]

Again, if you vote for Trump, you're supporting Trump - and all he is and all he stands for - even though you've admitted it's ugly.

And if you support Hillary you support the criminal element in politics she stands for. In my view she is just as ugly as Trump could ever be, just a different flavor of ugliness.

I happen to think that anyone who votes for Trump will have to set aside any number of values they'd assign to any other candidate. Whether it's women ignoring his misogyny, Hispanics ignoring his bigotry and (albeit empty) threats, social conservatives his ideological waffling, fiscal conservatives his crony capitalism, and progressives his one-percent status... there's something there for everyone, all right.

That is rich...you do realize that you will have to set aside quite a number of values & morals to vote for the criminal Hillary as well so, pick your poison...an undignified ugly man or a known liar & felon woman. :chuckle: Hopefully we don't have to make that choice but, I assure you I have decided what I will do in advance if that choice comes.

 

[annabenedetti]

And if you support Hillary you support the criminal element in politics she stands for. In my view she is just as ugly as Trump could ever be, just a different flavor of ugliness.

I never said I supported Hillary, and this isn't about Hillary. It's about people such as yourself who are willing to vote for someone whom you readily admit is ugly.

That is rich...you do realize that you will have to set aside quite a number of values & morals to vote for the criminal Hillary as well so, pick your poison...an undignified ugly man or a known liar & felon woman. :chuckle: Hopefully we don't have to make that choice but, I assure you I have decided what I will do in advance if that choice comes.

Again, Hillary is a red herring, not part of this conversation at all.

And honestly, do you not think Trump is a liar?

 

[annabenedetti]

Not a cherry pick but, a real world stat that happened where I live. That is only one of many violent crimes that happen around me locally that can be attributed to illegal aliens.

Yes, you're cherry-picking. As I said (which you didn't address), I could come up with an impressive list of crimes committed by "legitimate citizens." But the crowd needs a scapegoat to vent its anger on, and Trump has provided them with one.

You also didn't address the fact that you're squeezing out of this state what you want of it before you leave - certainly you're using it for how it can benefit you, which makes your concern for your "American citizen brothers and sisters" here looking just a little bit hollow.

Certainly you are entitled to your view & I to mine...

Absolutely. I don't see why we have to keep stating the obvious.

I don't see the drain on the local hospitals, education, social services, & law enforcement as being productive. So are you paying their income taxes? because if they are illegal they sure are not. Yours is a minority view and your view is in the minority...you can read about it.

You don't think they pay taxes? Think again.

Be that as it may it is still against the law...period. If they want citizenship then do it the old fashioned way...apply for it legally. You are letting your raw emotions cloud logical good judgement.

You've stolen my line, because I've been saying that about Trump supporters for weeks now. :chuckle:

Hardly, you have obviously never been to anywhere but, tourist destinations in Mexico. If you do get inside of the country away from the tourist traps you will find a very different story it is dreadful, poverty stricken, dirty, not to mention quite dangerous. The country's government is corrupt from the top down and has allowed their lawlessness to depress their own people. I understand perfectly why they want to get out...I have seen it with my own eyes and it is hardly an overstatement. Really, if Americans had true compassion for the people of Mexico they would push American lawmakers to sanction Mexico until they change their corrupt ways and address the human rights atrocities right in our back yard instead of spending billions on countries on the other side of the world, and that cannot be overstated either.

No, there's no compassion in sanctions. They only hurt the people. A lot of good it did for Cuba, right? I too understand why immigrants want to get out and make a better life for themselves - and we should be making it easier for them to do so legally. We need them, and they need us. Why not make the system work better? Why round them up and send them home? Because there's a certain segment of the population who fears the browning of America, that's why. Yet it was Saint Ronnie who signed the first amnesty, and if things had been better run there from there, across both parties who've been in office in the decades since, there would be no gasbag bloviating about a wall that he's never going to build.

Well name it? what are these great strides towards assimilation Anna? Your argument is without merit and a simple emotional response.

You made an assertion ("There has been no attempt to assimilate") without substantiation, an overstatement impossible to support. It's yours that's without merit and I was merely pointing it out.

On this point I believe you are correct, I do not think logistically or legally we can deport this many people without due process for each and every one...unlike you I do respect the law. What could be done however is simply to enforce existing federal law such as e-verify, fining those that employ illegals and if illegals cannot work they will go home on their own and maybe return legally the next time. I do believe that expediting a process for immigrants to come & work in America needs to be addressed but, if the state of California or it's business owning residents have to pay more for legal workers to pick produce, or pay more for citizens to come back to the trade jobs (plumbing,concrete, drywall, mechanical, roofing etc.) that illegals have stole for a cheap wage than so be it, I care more about my American citizen brothers & sisters that are displaced & unemployed, than I do for someone destroying the living wage for everyone through cheap illegal labor. Having people off the unemployment & welfare roles will be a boon for California in taxes anyway. Seems you care more about the invaders than you do for the lives of natural citizens who cannot find jobs if it were not for illegal alien labor...and you say I am the bad guy? sheesh! your allegiances are misplaced in my view.

And you say I'm arguing from emotion?

I think you know as well as I do that immigrants do the jobs that Americans don't want to do. It's that simple. Hard to admit to, maybe, but that's the way it is.

And yeah. His "plan" to round them up and send them home and build a wall to keep them out is nothing but hot air, empty rhetoric to fire up the crowd of nativists who are cheering him on.

 

[rocketman]

I never said I supported Hillary, and this isn't about Hillary. It's about people such as yourself who are willing to vote for someone whom you readily admit is ugly.

It is about Hillary the prospective successor and her being matched with Trump in a general election Anna. I have no qualms about admitting I would vote for Trump under this circumstance...none at all.

Again, Hillary is a red herring, not part of this conversation at all.

False, I have outlined my stance, in fact she would be the reason I would vote for the man...instead of trying to change what I have said, or turn my personal view into a debate point just attempt to understand it...you don't have to agree. You could cry red herring if we were debating but, since I am sharing my personal POV with you, it is not up for debate, there is no argument to distract you from.

And honestly, do you not think Trump is a liar?

All humans are liars Anna, so yes I am sure Trump has lied...is Trump a criminal compulsive liar? a felon? I do not believe so. The same cannot be said for Hillary who is potentially running for the demoncrats with the blessing of the lawless left...heck they are not even outraged at her character in the least yet, I do find it interesting that the same people are outraged by Trump for far less. These two could be potentially paired against another in the general...how will you choose?

 

[rocketman]

I assume you and I could continue to bat this back & forth, I on the other hand have grown weary of our opposition and feel that it is safe to say you and I are on completely different planets politically & socially so , we will have to agree to disagree for now.

 

[annabenedetti]

I assume you and I could continue to bat this back & forth, I on the other hand have grown weary of our opposition and feel that it is safe to say you and I are on completely different planets politically & socially so , we will have to agree to disagree for now.

Okay. Let me know if you change your mind and we can pick up where you left off.

 

[rainee]

People always have factors at work on both the inside and the outside, and I wouldn't describe either as "merely." If you're talking about immigrants and what impels them to leave their homeland for a new country, I'd see both inner and outer motivations and processes as powerful.

Well, then it appears we agree.

If you're talking about undocumented Mexican immigrants in particular: in their culture, family is so important to them. To leave loved ones behind, and to expose the family traveling with them to the physical danger and emotional distress involved in crossing the border to work at low-paying, physically demanding jobs in order to provide a better life for them takes more strength of character, courage, determination, self-sacrifice, hope, optimism, and love than many of those braying nativist supporters of Trump will ever hope to experience in their lifetimes.

Anna, I don't know where you are getting your experience from, but in a small town outside of Waco there were indeed a very high number of Mexicans working when I lived there some years ago.

Many lined up every Saturday Morning to mail money home to their families.

Now then, on one hand we very much agree that family is very, very important to many and I think that could be witnessed by many living and working in the small Texas town.

But recently someone from that area said the families were living in the town now, so not long lines at the Post Office after payday anymore...

I worked for a wonderful female boss here in Florida who was a Canadian who married a man here while on vacation...

The Canadian went back and forth and so did her children, actually quite similarly to what some say many people from Mexico do.

I don't think of either of those neighbors as real immigrants... Do you? I traveled further going to live in Oregon - and the people were quite strange. No, I mean it. Yes, really I do. I went to an all night cafe after just getting, arrived at about 10:00pm, ordered tea but noticed lots of the guys seemed to be checking me out. Even the waitress seemed strange when I ordered. After a bit I man went to pay and he turned, looked at me rather pointedly ... And began drawing out twenty dollar bills slowly. It seemed he wanted me to count them, so I did, one, two, three. Wow. Sixty bucks. What the heck did he eat there? A cow? Then I realized since the waitress was watching to see what I would, heck maybe the whole joint was, the freaking guy was a truck driver and this is was a proposition for prostitution.

I don't know if it is still like that, I've heard Seattle and Portland have all cleaned up on the prostitution.

But anyway going from Italy or Ireland to the States, or from Nordic countries, that is what I thought of when I wrote about immigrants.

 

[rainee]

Sorry for all the typos, having to do several things, yikes.
Hope it made some sense.

 

[chrysostom]

trump is a jerk

 

[annabenedetti]

Anna, I don't know where you are getting your experience from

California, about 30 miles north of the border.

but in a small town outside of Waco there were indeed a very high number of Mexicans working when I lived there some years ago.

Many lined up every Saturday Morning to mail money home to their families.

Now then, on one hand we very much agree that family is very, very important to many and I think that could be witnessed by many living and working in the small Texas town.

But recently someone from that area said the families were living in the town now, so not long lines at the Post Office after payday anymore...

I'm not sure what that has to do with your original point:

What I was getting at is people who would leave everything behind and go into an unknown world possibly could be set apart from those who don't.

Maybe they have factors at work on the inside, not just merely on the outside? Maybe they have a higher tolerance for fear? Or excitement? Or are inherently more aggressive? Maybe some were dumb, not comprehending the possible dangers? Maybe some were not social adept? If they had a brain make up or anything like that which could interfere with socializing skills maybe we have a society pretty much filled with rebels and independence fighters? Or rather the offspring of those.

Maybe you can clarify the above.

I worked for a wonderful female boss here in Florida who was a Canadian who married a man here while on vacation...

The Canadian went back and forth and so did her children, actually quite similarly to what some say many people from Mexico do.

I don't think of either of those neighbors as real immigrants... Do you?

As opposed to what? Fake immigrants?

I traveled further going to live in Oregon - and the people were quite strange. No, I mean it. Yes, really I do. I went to an all night cafe after just getting, arrived at about 10:00pm, ordered tea but noticed lots of the guys seemed to be checking me out. Even the waitress seemed strange when I ordered. After a bit I man went to pay and he turned, looked at me rather pointedly ... And began drawing out twenty dollar bills slowly. It seemed he wanted me to count them, so I did, one, two, three. Wow. Sixty bucks. What the heck did he eat there? A cow? Then I realized since the waitress was watching to see what I would, heck maybe the whole joint was, the freaking guy was a truck driver and this is was a proposition for prostitution.

I don't know if it is still like that, I've heard Seattle and Portland have all cleaned up on the prostitution.

Seattle's amazing. I thought about living there once upon a time. I've been in Oregon too, it's an absolutely beautiful state and the people are friendly. I'm not sure what your experience in Oregon has to do with our conversation on immigrants, though.

But anyway going from Italy or Ireland to the States, or from Nordic countries, that is what I thought of when I wrote about immigrants.

All European countries. The days of immigrants coming to this country primarily from Europe are long behind us. That's what bothers those who support Trump's nativism: they don't like that immigrants are coming from non-European countries.There was a time when all the nativists had to worry about were the Catholics. Those nativists are probably turning in their graves right now. :chuckle:

 

[Rusha]

trump is a jerk

lain: I don't like agreeing with you.

 

[The Barbarian]

If Trump had an agreement with Hillary to ensure her win by embarrassing R's & then running as an indie, what would he be doing differently?
https://twitter.com/AG_Conservative/status/624254811106615297