God's Truth
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Something else we agree on!
Why Your Faith in a Doctrine or a Religion Will NOT Save You
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Something else we agree on!
The biggest disagreement we have is on the nature of God. That God is one and yet three persons.
God's Truth
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I think that is something that is hard for you to hear me talk about.
To clarify, I believe God is three. I just do not believe the three are separate and different. I believe they are one and the same.
I have a powerful testimony. There is just no other way I can believe it because when Jesus saved me, he at that time came to live in me. There is just no way that another Spirit came to live with me. They must be the same One Spirit. That is my beliefs. I understand that you cannot believe like that but I love talking about God anyway. I just do not enjoy it much anymore as I used too, for too much slander on me for too many years. I never thought I would be called stupid and evil for preaching obedience to Christ. I never thought I would be hated so much.
I am not saying that you are a modalist but what you believe is close to it. I don't think it is so much hate but rather an inability to understand your position. I find it very eyeopening to discuss things with you and as you can see from as of late I learn new things from you.
God's Truth
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I can't tell you how long I have longed to hear that from someone and had given up the thought of it ever happening. It is the only reason why I ever began talking about God on the Internet years ago.
It does sound like modalism. I hope one day you will understand more of why I believe Jesus is the Spirit and the same Spirit that is the Father. When Jesus saved me, he himself made his home in me, not another Spirit for him.
Thank you for saying something to me so awesome. All I ever wanted to do was share with others what I had with Jesus.
I believe something close to that except they are to me different persons. I say that because of the differentiation made in scripture calling them Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
God's Truth
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It does seem clear enough to believe it that way. It is what the scriptures say.
It is just the part about Jesus himself living in the saved. Jesus himself lives in the saved. I just can't get past the idea that the Holy Spirit and not Jesus is doing the living inside me, as if they are different.
Can you at least try to understand what I mean, or does it sound too heretical to you to even think of it like that?
I understand what you mean. Does it seem heretical to you that I would say that I believe the Triune God dwells in us.
John 14:23 King James Version (KJV)
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
John 14:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
God's Truth
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I don't think you are a heretic; not everyone can believe it as I do. I was a trinitarian for a while after being saved. I was in a debate group defending the trinity doctrine and it dawned on me after studying about it and thinking of how Jesus himself is living in me, and how there is only one Spirit, I just couldn't come to any other conclusion.
God the Father is love. God the Father is Spirit. Love is a Spirit. Just can't think of there being three different or one Spirit and two different persons.
Maybe we should stop talking about it for now. I don't want to upset you, or should I say frustrate you.
No problem, I'm pretty thick-skinned. As long as the debate remains civil, I have no problem.
God's Truth
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Oh that sounds good.
So then what do you think about Jesus being love, and Jesus living inside the saved, love living inside the saved?
Since God is love, and Jesus is God and is also love, can you see more now how I think they are one and the same?
They are one in the same in that they are God. However there is still a separateness between the Father and the Son. I have no problem in saying that both reside in us.
God's Truth
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How about like this:
God the Father Jesus Christ the Son The Holy Spirit
Love love love
Exactly the same no difference.
Yep only the separation caused by the different persons. Remember the passages in John 14:17 and 23?
God's Truth
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I believe that in John 14:17 Jesus is explaining that the Spirit he is going to give them is his Spirit, his own Spirit. Jesus says you know him because he lives with you and will be in you. Jesus was with them and will himself live in them.
See in John 14:23, Jesus says the Father and he will live in the saved. That shows me that they are exactly the same, for we are only given one Spirit and God the Father and Jesus himself lives in us.
All I can say is that I understand why you believe the way you do. I believe that the Spirit in John 14:17 is the Spirit He sent in John 14:16. It follows grammatically. In John 14:23 I see a co-existence of the Father and the Son in the believer.
God's Truth
New member
Don't forget that I do believe there are three. God showed Himself to us through the Man Jesus who lived in the flesh, obeyed, grew, taught us, died for us, and reconciles the world through him.
It is almost as though you believe the Trinity and are only held back because of the relationship between the Father and the Son. I sort of look at it as how can I be my father.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Translation: I am my final authority.
Pfft.
Romans 6:23 means what it says, as it says it and to whom.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
As in:
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Romans 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Still, this has nothing to do with Mark 10:27 KJV.
And John 14:23 says we and our, which means two or more.
"We will come to him and make Our home with him." (John 14:23)
"I in them, and You in Me" (John 17:23)
The pronouns require two persons: There is you and there is me.
"I in them, and You in Me"
The Father and Son are a team, one team.
The Father and Son are a family, one family.
The Father and Son are a Spirit, one Spirit.
A holy Spirit. The holy Spirit.
The Father is no one's son. He was not born.
At this time the Son is no one's father, but he was born.