Why Your Faith in a Doctrine or a Religion Will NOT Save You

[Robert Pate]

False.

You would agree that the Gospels, and the content therein, occurred before Paul's conversion, yes? This would lead logically to the events described, such as the Apostles witnessing the Risen Christ, to have occurred before Paul's experience on the road to Damascus. Therefore, to assert that Paul was preaching the Resurrection before the Apostles, is illogical. The Apostles would have known the justification that went with Christ rising. To imply otherwise would go against the teachings and very Words of Christ.

If you wish to argue about "who wrote it first," Matthew and James have the earliest composed writings (being Matthew's Gospel and James). Paul comes next, with his letter to the Thessalonians. But even then, we have Mark, a disciple of Peter, and John, one of the 12 Apostles, also composing accounts of the Gospel. Would it not stand to reason that Peter, John, Mark, Matthew, and James would not have known the justification doctrine that comes as a byproduct of the Resurrection? To answer no would be to give more weight to the writings of Paul. Such ideas are dangerous, as it leads to a devaluing of the Gospels, as well as the other writings, which are divinely inspired. How would the Holy Spirit, being eternally fair and good, give partial truths to the Apostles, but the full truth to Paul? To say that Paul taught it first is to imply that this is the case.

Thus, logically, in accordance to the attributes of Christ, and the evidence put forth in the Gospels and subsequent Scriptures, we can conclude that the Resurrection was declared, as well as, justification, by the Apostles, before Paul.

The apostles did not fully understand what God had accomplished in Jesus Christ until the day of Pentecost, when all was revealed to them by the Holy Spirit, Acts 2. Pentecost gave birth to the New Testament church. Peter preached the Gospel for the very first time, thousands heard and believed, Acts 2:41. The Gospel that Paul received directly from Jesus was more indepth, Galatians 1:11,12.

 

[jsanford108]

The apostles did not fully understand what God had accomplished in Jesus Christ until the day of Pentecost, when all was revealed to them by the Holy Spirit, Acts 2. Pentecost gave birth to the New Testament church. Peter preached the Gospel for the very first time, thousands heard and believed, Acts 2:41. The Gospel that Paul received directly from Jesus was more indepth, Galatians 1:11,12.

I would agree that "all was revealed" at Pentecost. However, examine your phrasing more closely. "All was revealed" versus Paul's being "more in depth." So, either it was "all" or it wasn't. The Apostles were either revealed "all" or they weren't. Thus, to say Paul's was more in-depth implies only a partial revealing to the Apostles.

I will stick with what the Scriptures say and imply. That the Apostles knew on the day of Pentecost. That they literally conversed and were granted graces beyond all others by the Resurrected Christ.


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[Robert Pate]

I would agree that "all was revealed" at Pentecost. However, examine your phrasing more closely. "All was revealed" versus Paul's being "more in depth." So, either it was "all" or it wasn't. The Apostles were either revealed "all" or they weren't. Thus, to say Paul's was more in-depth implies only a partial revealing to the Apostles.

I will stick with what the Scriptures say and imply. That the Apostles knew on the day of Pentecost. That they literally conversed and were granted graces beyond all others by the Resurrected Christ.


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Paul taught the apostles what it meant to be justified by faith.

 

[Bright Raven]

only Jesus saves, no doctrine or religion will suffice.

 

[jsanford108]

Paul taught the apostles what it meant to be justified by faith.

So Paul taught them more than Christ?

Do you have any evidence of this?


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[jamie]

The apostles did not fully understand what God had accomplished in Jesus Christ until the day of Pentecost, when all was revealed to them by the Holy Spirit, Acts 2.

The resurrected Christ spent forty days with his apostles before he ascended into the clouds.

Are you saying they were not properly trained to do their job?

 

[jamie]

The Gospel that Paul received directly from Jesus was more indepth, Galatians 1:11,12.

Yes, it had to be before Christ could turn Paul loose on his people.

The other apostles were not as vicious and full of hate toward Christ's people.

 

[jamie]

only Jesus saves, no doctrine or religion will suffice.

So what is the NT about if not the teachings of Christ?

 

[Bright Raven]

So what is the NT about if not the teachings of Christ?

And where did I say that the New Testament was not about the teachings of Christ?

 

[jamie]

And where did I say that the New Testament was not about the teachings of Christ?

Did you say only Jesus saves, no doctrine or religion will suffice.

Are NT doctrines the teachings of Christ?

"Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment." (Hebrews 6:1-2)

 

[Bright Raven]

Did you say only Jesus saves, no doctrine or religion will suffice.

Are NT doctrines the teachings of Christ?

"Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment." (Hebrews 6:1-2)

The point is only Jesus saves

 

[Robert Pate]

Did you say only Jesus saves, no doctrine or religion will suffice.

Are NT doctrines the teachings of Christ?

"Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment." (Hebrews 6:1-2)

In Hebrews 6:1-3 the believers are encouraged to go on to the deeper things of Christ. That would include what God had accomplished in his Son Jesus Christ in the Gospel. In Jesus Christ we have been, justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. It is no longer about us, its about Jesus Christ.

 

[beloved57]

In Hebrews 6:1-3 the believers are encouraged to go on to the deeper things of Christ. That would include what God had accomplished in his Son Jesus Christ in the Gospel. In Jesus Christ we have been, justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. It is no longer about us, its about Jesus Christ.

You teach that sinners Christ died for are still lost!

 

[jamie]

The point is only Jesus saves

Well, we know that's not true.

Don't ignore the work of the holy Spirit.

Blasphemy against the Spirit consigns a person to the second resurrection.

"Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men."
(Matthew 12:31)

Don't speak ill of the Father.

 

[Bright Raven]

Well, we know that's not true.

Don't ignore the work of the holy Spirit.

Blasphemy against the Spirit consigns a person to the second resurrection.

"Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men." (Matthew 12:31)

Don't speak ill of the Father.

The Holy Spirit convicts of sin. Only Jesus saves us from sin

 

[jamie]

The Holy Spirit convicts of sin. Only Jesus saves us from sin

No one can come to Jesus until the Father initiates it.

The Father must first give a person to Christ for salvation to take effect.

We are saved by God's grace and there is only one true God according to Jesus.

 

[God's Truth]

No one can come to Jesus until the Father initiates it.

The Father must first give a person to Christ for salvation to take effect.

We are saved by God's grace and there is only one true God according to Jesus.

You are getting times mixed up.

 

[Robert Pate]

No one can come to Jesus until the Father initiates it.

The Father must first give a person to Christ for salvation to take effect.

We are saved by God's grace and there is only one true God according to Jesus.

The whole world has been reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:19. So that now, "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

 

[jamie]

The whole world has been reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:19. So that now, "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

Now we need the rest of the story.

Everyone will have an opportunity for salvation, but not necessarily in this age.

Jesus died that through him the world might be saved.

But this is not the only day of salvation.

 

[Robert Pate]

Now we need the rest of the story.

Everyone will have an opportunity for salvation, but not necessarily in this age.

Jesus died that through him the world might be saved.

But this is not the only day of salvation.

"Today is the day of salvation" You could die at any time.