Why would God need a hell?

[KingdomRose]

What's going to happen to unbelieving heathens? Well, they are not going to be left in the hands of religious believers in God, that would be unmerciful; Christ will inherit them. In Ps. 2:8, I will give you the heathen for your inheritance, and all the earth for your possession." This is WHY Jesus said he came not for the righteous, but for sinners; the heathens; the rejected of religion; the outcasts of Christianity; the scorned.

In Psalm 7:1 David was talking about being delivered from believers in God who were judging him; " Save me from all those who persecute me." Christ is going to save all the heathens that religion is making reservations for in their hell.

Do you have me blocked? You keep asking questions that I have answered a multitude of times!

Jesus is going to destroy the "heathens" [the nations] that are given to him to take care of by his Father. You must read the whole verse and surrounding verses.

Jehovah says of His Son: "'You shall break them with a rod of iron, you shall shatter them like earthenware.' Now, therefore, O kings, show discernment; take warning, O judges of the earth. Worship the LORD with reverence and rejoice with trembling. Do homage to the Son, that he not become angry, and you perish in the way, for his wrath may soon be kindled. How blessed are all who take refuge in him!" (Psalm 2:8-12, NASB)

The scriptures are clear. You filter out what you want to hear. Look at ALL of the scriptures. Then search for the true God, Jehovah, and listen to Him.

"Seek the LORD [YHWH], all you humble of the earth who have carried out His ordinances; seek righteousness, seek humility, perhaps you will be hidden in the day of the LORD's anger." (Zephaniah 2:3, NASB) "Perhaps" meaning---it's up to you to cling to God and stay there.

 

[Mickiel]

Throughout Scripture, God is showing man his utter hopelessness to ever redeem himself no matter what blessing or curse as a motivating incentive God might come up with.

Be it the ultimate curse - a lake of fire - or the ultimate blessing - His Son's shed Blood on the Cross.

This, that He might save some from the one, through the other.

Look around; how's man doing so far? How's he measuring up in the face of either of those two motivations - be it the impending wrath of God, or the offer of the Grace of God?

Read Romans 1:16 to the end of chapter 3.

Its the answer to your Romans 9:16-24 question

The wrath of God is his reaction to sin, not the sinner; and the Christian doctrine of eternal hell punishing is a myth, it has nothing to do with the wrath of God. That myth is simply what Christians would do with unbelievers, if they held the power.

 

[KingdomRose]

Why should I believe that God will destroy some humans forever? Why? I mean, why would God have to do that, when the death of Jesus WAS their death? Jesus already died for them; he died for unbelievers, so why would God kill them again? In Heb. 2:9, " By the Grace of God, Jesus tasted death for every human being!"

Oh so you are trying to tell me that AFTER Jesus has tasted death for me, that I still have to die forever if your religion does not approve of me?

Because those who PRACTICE sin are not covered by Jesus' blood. It's not about what "my" religion approves.....it is told to us through the pages of the Bible. Take it or don't. It's up to you.

"For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins." (Hebrews 10:26, NASB)

 

[Danoh]

Both eternal hell punishing or eternal death would be a " Casting off forever." No doubt about it, both would have eternal continual reach. IF they were true, it is my view that they are not. In Lamentations 3:31, " The Lord will NOT cast off forever." This cancels out both eternal hell or death. God will not do that. And you can find support against both these unusual assumptions in the bible, and sadly some support for them.

What you have found is a support for YOUR misunderstanding of what casting away it was that Jeremiah was talking about in that Lamentations passage.

But that is dealt with in Romans 9 and there is no way you read those references I gave that quickly, actually attempting to allow them their voice.

Said not casting away issue is further elaborated on in Romans 10 and 11, by the way.

The best to you in that...

 

[Mickiel]

, all you humble of the earth who have carried out His ordinances; seek righteousness, seek humility, perhaps you will be hidden in the day of the LORD's anger." (Zephaniah 2:3, NASB) "Perhaps" meaning---it's up to you to cling to God and stay there.

I don't know God yet; perhaps one day I will, just not today. I disagree with how you see some things, and agree on other things.

That's just how it is. I have never met anyone I totally agree with.

 

[KingdomRose]

Not sure how this answers Prizebeatz1 statement, but take this for a 'spin' -


Don't forget, the levitcal laws were written for Jews (and some expressly for the Jewish priests only), not Gentiles or the whole world. Also note that modern day Jews do not even follow these old tribal laws of putting people to 'death' (this means a physical death, by stoning or some other method), but instead 'interpret' these 'rules' metaphorically, or figuratively. Show us where the modern day government of Israel carries out ANY of the penalties listed in the Torah, and especially enforcing DEATH. It stands to question what value these rules even have.

Another person trying to squeek by the principles of God's viewpoint! The Laws were "nailed to the 'cross,'" to be taken out of the way, so that people's hearts would be the place where God's laws would be "written." Jesus fulfilled the Law, and he said that the over 600 laws can be reduced to two: Love Jehovah with all one's heart, and one's neighbor as oneself. Do you think Jehovah would NOW condone bestiality, just because He wrote it in the Law for Jews?

Israel today is far from Jehovah. They don't even use His name (that He told them to use forever...Exodus 3:15). They don't do anything He told them to do, so don't go by what the physical nation of Israel is doing.

His Laws are not to be interpreted metaphorically. The Law no longer binds the nation of Israel or any of us, but the principles it sets forth are valid.


oly:

 

[Mickiel]

The best to you in that...

Well thank you.

Peace.

 

[KingdomRose]

Do we honestly believe Jesus who was God, as so many people believe, would do something like that? Can you give me one example? What about when the crowd tried to stone the woman caught in adultery?

Jesus obviously could see something good in her heart. But a person who PRACTICES bestiality??? Do you think that it's just fine and peachy? Can you IMAGINE it? I don't have any problem with the decree to put someone like that to death.

Jehovah was concerned with the life of the innocent. He made sure that they were taken care of and judged fairly. He only wanted the irreconcilably wicked people to die, so that the innocent people could live in peace and security.

 

[KingdomRose]

This thread is discussing hell, so I will continue talking about it.

You don't just talk about it....you ask the same questions over and over!:dizzy:

 

[Mickiel]

You don't just talk about it....you ask the same questions over and over!:dizzy:

Well I do my best, and I have no criticisms of you to offer in return. I am sure I make mistakes, and thank you for pointing that out.

 

[Mickiel]

A time is coming when the name of God will be great, even among the heathen, Mal. 1:11.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

Yes, but the Bible also says that He hates evil. That stands to reason. Jehovah is a Person who has feelings! He is said to be sad, grief-stricken, happy, joyful....and for Him to hate what is bad is expected of anyone who is just.

"You shall not set up for yourself a sacred pillar [possibly a phallic symbol, to be worshiped] which the LORD your God hates." (Deuteronomy 16:22, NASB)

"Jehovah examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one, and anyone loving violence His soul certainly hates." (Psalm 11:5, NWT)

"There are six things which the LORD hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, a false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers." (Proverbs 6:16-19, NASB)

"Hate evil, love good, and establish justice in the gate!" (Amos 5:15, NASB)

:thumb:

There is no room for hatred in God. I interpret those kind of passages as coming from the personality's viewpoint. More importantly, underneath the intensity of our attachment to the bible is the fear of facing the spaciousness that is left when we let go (BTW please don't let go until you're ready or this may reinforce the defensive structures of the personality and make things worse). This spaciousness is our gentle friend. Be wary of the tendency to judge it. This infinite spaciousness is more important than the bible. "No one can serve two masters." Matthew 6:24. I suggest coming to terms with this now. Even though it is the word of God, the bible is still man-made and the interpretation is man-made as well which opens up the floodgates for all kinds of debates and arguments.

When we read the fables of other cultures we don't usually take them literally because we know they are just stories. Many contain morals or lessons to be learned. If we get too caught up in the details we can miss the point. We can learn to approach the bible from more of an overall perspective with a huge grain of salt. I find it works best with a loose translation that leaves plenty of wiggle room for playful interpretation. Loosening our grip on the literal interpretation can help create distance from the desires and attachments of the personality. No matter how small, this gap of space has the potential to grow as a tiny mustard seed but we have to cultivate the conditions. Notice this space is one with what is infinite and eternal. It can become the yeast which permeates the dough. It spreads and then we have the Kingdom living inside of us. This is how we know the soul is one with God because all things are possible with God. The bible then becomes something that lives and breathes. We become the characters and experience it as if we are part of the story. It is very fluent, dynamic.

 

[Mickiel]

Even though it is the word of God, the bible is still man-made and the interpretation is man-made as well which opens up the floodgates for all kinds of debates and arguments. I did not find out any of this until after I actually let go of my attachment to the bible too FYI.

The bible was written by men who were led to write it by the Spirit of God. The different interpretations of it, many of those are man made, yes. How the bible was translated was man made. Does the bible has errors in it, in my view, yes it does, mostly at the fault of how it was translated. It was originally written in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. When they translated it into Latin, a lot of horrible mis-translations got put in . But enough of it has remained intact to get its message across.

 

[serpentdove]

...In Lamentations 3:31, " The Lord will NOT cast off forever." This cancels out both eternal hell or death...

"Lam 3:31, 32 The promises that God made to the patriarchs (Gen. 12:1–3; 15:13–21; 22:15–18) were not cast off, but were still in force. The wickedness of God’s people delayed but could not frustrate the complete fulfillment of His promises." Radmacher, E. D., Allen, R. B., & House, H. W. (1999). Nelson’s new illustrated Bible commentary (La 3:31–32). Nashville: T. Nelson Publishers.

 

[Town Heretic]

Why would God need a hell?

:think:

Because of something you did?


Or were you serious? Why does God need gravity? Why does God need anything? Same answer.

 

[serpentdove]

A time is coming when the name of God will be great, even among the heathen, Mal. 1:11.

For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts [Mal. 1:11].

"Israel was bringing the name of God into disrepute by the way they were serving Him. They were not serving Him as they did in the days of Solomon, for instance, when the Queen of Sheba was greatly impressed with what she saw. At this time, the unsaved were not impressed because it was just a form and a ceremony.

God says that there is a day coming when His name will be great among the Gentiles. If you think that this has been fulfilled today, you’re entirely wrong. It will be fulfilled in the Millennium but not today. God’s name is not great among the nations today.

“And in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering.” “Incense” speaks of prayer. That “pure offering” is Christ.

“For my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.” God’s purpose in choosing Israel was that they might witness to the nations of the world." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Prophets (Malachi) (electronic ed., Vol. 33, pp. 26–27). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

 

[patrick jane]

When we read the fables of other cultures we don't usually take them literally because we know they are just stories. Many contain morals or lessons to be learned. If we get too caught up in the details we can miss the point. We can learn to approach the bible from more of an overall perspective with a huge grain of salt. I find it works best with a loose translation that leaves plenty of wiggle room for playful interpretation. Loosening our grip on the literal interpretation can help create distance from the desires and attachments of the personality.

You have loosened your grip on sound doctrine


2 Timothy 4:2 KJV - 2 Timothy 4:3 KJV - 2 Timothy 4:4 KJV -

 

[Prizebeatz1]

Jesus obviously could see something good in her heart. But a person who PRACTICES bestiality??? Do you think that it's just fine and peachy? Can you IMAGINE it? I don't have any problem with the decree to put someone like that to death.

Jehovah was concerned with the life of the innocent. He made sure that they were taken care of and judged fairly. He only wanted the irreconcilably wicked people to die, so that the innocent people could live in peace and security.

I hear you. Yes, judgement is a necessary tool for practical purposes. But it is helpful to know that there is an option to put the tool down as well.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

The bible was written by men who were led to write it by the Spirit of God. The different interpretations of it, many of those are man made, yes. How the bible was translated was man made. Does the bible has errors in it, in my view, yes it does, mostly at the fault of how it was translated. It was originally written in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. When they translated it into Latin, a lot of horrible mis-translations got put in . But enough of it has remained intact to get its message across.

Right. But could there be an even higher more advanced version of the message that has been overlooked? Perhaps the bible is a 100,000 times more advanced than we thought.

 

[Mickiel]

Right. But could there be an even higher more advanced version of the message that has been overlooked? Perhaps the bible is a 100,000 times more advanced than we thought.

All things are possible: but the bible is the written message that got assembled together into a book of books. If there exist another more advanced version of this message, I don't know about it. But its possible. I don't see why God would have done that; but what God does is not based on how I see things.