Why would God need a hell?

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Prizebeatz1

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I need to correct this, I said Adam did not sin, but he did commit one, he ate the fruit after God said not to; and that was all he did wrong. It was the only thing Eve did wrong. Both Adam and Eve were totally outclassed and over powered by the serpent; they had absolutely no chance against the serpent.

And that's just how God wanted it, which is why he let the serpent in the garden in the first place. God got the outcome he wanted.

Could Adam and Eve represent mankind, the garden, our natural innocent state of pure undivided wholeness and oneness, and the serpent, the personality? Could the forbidden fruit represent the temptation to judge? Could the true original sin be the belief in separation from God? Could the stories in the bible be metaphors which represent something much deeper?
 

Mickiel

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Could Adam and Eve represent mankind, the garden, our natural innocent state of pure undivided wholeness and oneness, and the serpent, the personality? Could the forbidden fruit represent the temptation to judge? Could the true original sin be the belief in separation from God? Could the stories in the bible be metaphors which represent something much deeper?



The natural state of man is not innocent or pure or whole, that is a gross illusion, our natural state is selfish, sinful and fragmented. Adam and Eve were thrown from the presence of God, the separation started then and has not stopped. I know the new age mystics like to think in their own terms, and they see God all around us and they think God is everywhere; I totally disagree with the mystics, God is no where on earth to be found. And has not been to earth in a long time. He is hiding himself from humanity, keeping himself separate. There will never be oneness with him in this life!
 

Prizebeatz1

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The natural state of man is not innocent or pure or whole, that is a gross illusion, our natural state is selfish, sinful and fragmented. Adam and Eve were thrown from the presence of God, the separation started then and has not stopped. I know the new age mystics like to think in their own terms, and they see God all around us and they think God is everywhere; I totally disagree with the mystics, God is no where on earth to be found. And has not been to earth in a long time. He is hiding himself from humanity, keeping himself separate. There will never be oneness with him in this life!

Wow. I sense some unconscious self-rejection and self-hatred. Is it possible we are identified with the very thing that is keeping us with such a limited attitude? The personality is not our true identity. Attachment to it will prevent us from knowing we are one with God because it's job is to keep us separate. There is a divinity within each and every soul that is a miracle beyond belief. God is with us right here and right now. We are the evidence of this. We would not be alive if this were not true. Is God not life in itself? You are the signature of the creator. I'm not asking for you to agree but I am asking for understanding and openness to possibilities. "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26. Also the bible says God created everything and it was good. Is it possible that something bad can come out of something good or is it our own judgement that makes things bad (biting of the forbidden fruit?)?
 
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Mickiel

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Wow. I sense some unconscious self-rejection and self-hatred. Is it possible we are identified with the very thing that is keeping us with such a limited attitude? The personality is not our true identity. Attachment to it will prevent us from knowing we are one with God because it's job is to keep us separate. There is a divinity within each and every soul that is a miracle beyond belief. God is with us right here and right now. We are the evidence of this. We would not be alive if this were not true. I'm not asking for you to agree but I am asking for understanding and openness to possibilities. "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26



The future of humanity is to be one with God, we can't have that now in this flesh. Attachment to personality does not separate us from God, God has separated himself from us; its something he did. For his reasons. God is not right here with us now. The bible reveals that when he returns, EVERY eye will see him; and I don't see God now. And no mystic new age teaching can change that.

If God is here, simply show him to us. ( this I got to see).
 

Prizebeatz1

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If we close our eyes we can get a glimpse of what is infinite and eternal. All that blackness of space resides inside us too. Do not judge this. If we are willing to go through the purification process of waiting in this infinite blackness until the Lord turns us into new beings then we will experience the true power of God. But do not start to build this house until we have weighed every cost. One must endure the deepest darkest night of the soul. It is terrorizing but it is more terrorizing not to do so in the long run. And the soul is not mysticism. It's the reverse.
 

KingdomRose

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You know what scriptures they'll come up with, and the whole bottom line is that Jesus was not talking about a literal hell-fire, but he spoke in metaphors. "Gehenna" is translated as hell-fire, but when Christ mentions Gehenna he is focusing on the RESULT of a fire in the dump rather than the fire itself. Hell-fire proponents just see the fire. They don't understand that Jesus wasn't saying there is a literal fire, but that whoever is wicked will be totally destroyed, just as something that is set on fire would be---gone.:burnlib:


People are just dancing around the bush, when what I said here is worth discussing. But no one wants to really think about it. Jesus' teaching would not include torture and eternal pain. When we realize that he and God are the epitome of LOVE, we would reject the popular teaching of hell-fire immediately. Jesus mentioned "Gehenna." That is a metaphor for eternal destruction---"sleep." No one is conscious.
 

Mickiel

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You ever notice how many different beliefs are being expounded here , and everywhere else? All kinds of theology and opinions and all shades of gospels, the truth is being mixed with lies and the truth itself has been professionally watered down by those who use it. Believers are all mixed up, thinking God is three gods, thinking churches should not be taxed, thinking physical crosses are holy, thinking the wine during communion actually turns into Jesus blood.

In Matt. 24:12 Jesus said something interesting; " Because sin will abound, the love of many will grow cold!" A lot of these merciless doctrines, like eternal hell torture, are born from this cold heartedness in believers. Sinful doctrines have crept into their churches BECAUSE their sins have just outgrown their knowledge of God. And this has made them cold blooded! They will condemn you seconds after meeting you, or not even knowing you.

Jesus warned in verse 4, " Take heed that no man deceive you!" Believers in God have totally ignored that warning from Christ, historically ignored it. The churches of God are so deceived, its pitiful. I mean even the buildings they worship in were patterned after the Roman basilicas and Greek Temples. The " Pastors Chair" came from this same historical backround. That same history produced " Stained Glass Windows!"

The " Steeple" is rooted in ancient Babylonian architecture. The " Pulpit" came from Greek and Jewish history. The " Sunday Order of Worship" evolved from Gregory's mass in the six century. Taking the Lords supper was changed from yearly, to quarterly to monthly. The " Altar Call" came from 17th century Methodist. The " Contemporary Sermon" was borrowed from the Greek " Sophist". " Clergy Attire" started in AD330 when Christian clergy started wearing the garb of Roman officials. Funeral processions came from Greco-Roman paganism, as did infant baptism.

Its just all messed up, and I could make this list of things we do even longer. We don't even care any more where this stuff we do originates from. Its like we all are on some kind of powerful automatic pilot.
 

Prizebeatz1

New member
You ever notice how many different beliefs are being expounded here , and everywhere else? All kinds of theology and opinions and all shades of gospels, the truth is being mixed with lies and the truth itself has been professionally watered down by those who use it. Believers are all mixed up, thinking God is three gods, thinking churches should not be taxed, thinking physical crosses are holy, thinking the wine during communion actually turns into Jesus blood.

In Matt. 24:12 Jesus said something interesting; " Because sin will abound, the love of many will grow cold!" A lot of these merciless doctrines, like eternal hell torture, are born from this cold heartedness in believers. Sinful doctrines have crept into their churches BECAUSE their sins have just outgrown their knowledge of God. And this has made them cold blooded! They will condemn you seconds after meeting you, or not even knowing you.

Jesus warned in verse 4, " Take heed that no man deceive you!" Believers in God have totally ignored that warning from Christ, historically ignored it. The churches of God are so deceived, its pitiful. I mean even the buildings they worship in were patterned after the Roman basilicas and Greek Temples. The " Pastors Chair" came from this same historical backround. That same history produced " Stained Glass Windows!"

The " Steeple" is rooted in ancient Babylonian architecture. The " Pulpit" came from Greek and Jewish history. The " Sunday Order of Worship" evolved from Gregory's mass in the six century. Taking the Lords supper was changed from yearly, to quarterly to monthly. The " Altar Call" came from 17th century Methodist. The " Contemporary Sermon" was borrowed from the Greek " Sophist". " Clergy Attire" started in AD330 when Christian clergy started wearing the garb of Roman officials. Funeral processions came from Greco-Roman paganism, as did infant baptism.

Its just all messed up, and I could make this list of things we do even longer. We don't even care any more where this stuff we do originates from. Its like we all are on some kind of powerful automatic pilot.

Well at least you recognize the madness of it all. There are many indicators that something is wrong but few do anything about it out of fear. That's the way the adversary prefers it.
 

Prizebeatz1

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People are just dancing around the bush, when what I said here is worth discussing. But no one wants to really think about it. Jesus' teaching would not include torture and eternal pain. When we realize that he and God are the epitome of LOVE, we would reject the popular teaching of hell-fire immediately. Jesus mentioned "Gehenna." That is a metaphor for eternal destruction---"sleep." No one is conscious.

+1
 
Luke 16:19-31 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: and there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, and desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Matthew 13:40-42 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels... 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Mark 9:42-48 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Revelation 14:9-11 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
 

Mickiel

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Well at least you recognize the madness of it all. There are many indicators that something is wrong but few do anything about it out of fear. That's the way the adversary prefers it.


Its right there in history for anyone to read. Why do you think some congregations stand and sing when the clergy enters? That came from the ceremonial court of Roman Emperors in the 4th century; brought into the Protestant liturgy by John Calvin. Look at Tithing; the original church did not tithe at all! It did not become a Christian practice until the 8th century. And Clergy salaries was instituted by Constantine in the fourth century.

We have churches that are full of statues, and so called " Pictures of Christ", which normally are of a White man with flowing hair and smooth skin. Have you ever read the history of what a middle aged Arab carpenter would look like? We are so far from the truth, that we are comfortable with the lies!

Did you know that some churches are actually teaching that if you do not tithe that God will curse you? I mean, its ridiculous; I would like to know what the curse is? If I don't give any money to a church, then God is going to curse me. So now I have to give, under a compulsion! A threat! Same mentality is being used with eternal hell punishing; your being threatened! And expected to believe that God is supporting this behavior, because a church is envoking it on you.
 

serpentdove

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"In Rev. 2:13 ...one way is unholy doctrines, like eternal hell punishing."

His headquarters are in Rome today. :eek:linger: History repeats itself (Dan 11:23, 24, Eze 35).

Flashback:

Papal Mass Above David's Tomb

"Re 2:13 where Satan’s throne is. The headquarters of satanic opposition and a Gentile base for false religions. On the acropolis in Pergamos was a huge, throne-shaped altar to Zeus. In addition, Asklepios, the god of healing, was the god most associated with Pergamos. His snake-like form is still the medical symbol today. The famous medical school connected to his temple mingled medicine with superstition. One prescription called for the worshiper to sleep on the temple floor, allowing snakes to crawl over his body and infuse him with their healing power. Antipas. Probably the pastor of the church. faithful martyr. Tradition says Antipas was burned to death inside a brass bull. “Martyr,” a transliteration of the Gr. word, means witness. Because so many of the witnesses faithful to Christ were put to death, the word “martyr” developed its current definition.

2:14 doctrine of Balaam. Balaam tried unsuccessfully to prostitute his prophetic gift and curse Israel for money offered him by Balak, king of Moab. So he devised a plot to have Moabite women seduce Israelite men into intermarriage. The result was the blasphemous union of Israel with fornication and idolatrous feasts (for the story of Balaam, see Num. 22–25). things sacrificed to idols. See Acts 15:19–29." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1995). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.
 
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Mickiel

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His headquarters are in Rome today. :eek:linger: History repeats itself (Dan 11:23, 24, Eze 35).
.



You can cut the ambiblical cord and ignore where you came from; but history has already been recorded; modern day Christianity came from the Roman Catholic church. Like butterfly from Pupi, Christianity was born in Rome. And it still reeks of Roman paganism; still has all kinds of residue from paganism and psychology in its bloodstream.
 

serpentdove

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Rev.3:9...atan can organize himself as a church, that is what a Synagogue is, a church! satan is so powerful, he can actually lead a church of God, without them even being aware of his tampering with them...


"Re 3:9. I will make (δίδωμι). Rev., rightly, I give. See on ver. 8. The sense is broken off there and resumed here.

Of the synagogue (ἐκ τῆς συναγωγῆς). Certain ones of the synagogue. Most interpreters refer to the Jews. Others explain more generally, of the bowing down of the Church’s enemies at her feet. Trench refers to a passage in the Epistle of Ignatius to this Philadelphian church, implying the actual presence in the midst of it of converts from Judaism, who preached the faith which they once persecuted.

Of Satan. See Re 2:9." Vincent, M. R. (1887). Word studies in the New Testament (Vol. 2, pp. 465–466). New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons.
 

Mickiel

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Modern day Christianity has been profoundly shaped by Greek paganism and Roman imperialism. Soon after Christ death, Christians began to assimilate the magical mind set that characterized pagan thinking. The Christian funeral, even having a meal to honor the dead, came straight out of paganism in the 3rd century. Building a shrine over a burial place and calling it holy was also a pagan practice. Putting decorations on these burial places or using art, is straight out of paganism! Using a " Crucifix" as art came from this pagan back round and first appeared in the 5th century.
 

serpentdove

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"If we close our eyes we can get a glimpse of what is infinite and eternal..."
:AMR:
"...All that blackness of space resides inside us too."
:popcorn:
"Do not judge this..."
Pr 31:9
"If we are willing to go through the purification process of waiting in this infinite blackness..."
:granite:
"...until the Lord turns us into new beings..."
12.png

"...then we will experience the true power of God."
:popcorn:
"But do not start to build this house until we have weighed every cost."
:popcorn:
"...One must endure the deepest darkest night of the soul. It is terrorizing but it is more terrorizing not to do so in the long run. And the soul is not mysticism. It's the reverse."
Thou art a poet. Doest thou know it? Eccl 10:2, Jn 3:19, 10:10
 

serpentdove

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"...In Matt. 24:12 Jesus said something interesting; " Because sin will abound, the love of many will grow cold!" A lot of these merciless doctrines, like eternal hell torture, are born from this cold heartedness in believers..."

:yawn: God is merciful (1 Pet. 1:3).
 
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