Why would God need a hell?

[Mickiel]

you are suggesting that it doesn't matter what we do

do you see how dangerous that it?

Listen, people will do what they do, even your religion cannot stop that, the teachings in your religion has not saved this world, nor can it control the behavior of people. Salvation is a done deal, it does not matter what humanity does, no. And humanity has been dangerous since we were created.

The bible itself suggest it does not matter what men do, not at this point in our existence. Rev. 22:11, the last chapter in the bible, " He that is unjust, let him be unjust still; and he which is filthy, let them remain that way; and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still; and he that is holy, let them remain that way." In other words, it does not matter what we do, God has already determined the outcome; we ALL make it!

 

[chrysostom]

The bible itself suggest it does not matter what men do,

so you are here to tell us to relax
it will all be better
no matter what we do

thanks a lot

 

[Prizebeatz1]

you are suggesting that it doesn't matter what we do

do you see how dangerous that it?

I think that it is dangerous but i accept it as a consequence of the truth. It is a misunderstanding to think it gives us permission to do whatever we want however. I found it to be just the opposite. I've found that i simply need to allow God to do what he wills with my life. It's very scary and counter intuitive because personality is conditioned to defend and attack. These desires to control are very deeply ingrained in us and are not easy to overcome. I think we just need to be aware and find a way to simply accept without trying to control the outcome of our lives. This is a lesson in unconditional love which reflects the nature of God. It's a process that purifies us. It was the hardest thing in the world for me to do but in the long run I find it is much more difficult not to go through with the process in its entirety. It is not something that can be faked or done half-heartedly.

 

[Mickiel]

so you are here to tell us to relax
it will all be better
no matter what we do

thanks a lot

I did not write that scripture, Rev. 22:11 was inspired by God. All I can do is show you what it says. The bible is advising, here in the last chapter, that men may as well remain as they are; in other words, we do not determine the outcome! If you are filthy, you may as well remain that way; if you are unjust, then stay that way; WHY? Why would the bible say this? Because it really does not matter, the God of our salvation has us all covered. God is a planning predestined being, he leaves NOTHING to chance or human choice.

 

[SonOfCaleb]

I'm unsure of your stance. Some parts of what you wrote indicate God is not everywhere and some parts seem contrary. But notice how the personality will come up with many ways to justify separation. It projects it's sense of value and self-worth onto objects outside of itself. The meaning and value of the scriptures is actually within us. Believe me, I looked everywhere for it. There is an unconscious longing to connect with this feeling of infinite value. I didn't realize I AM the value and self-worth I'd been looking for my whole life, whether through religion, philosophy, career, money, sex, beer etc. It's really a glorious thing that I hope everyone can experience.

My stance is, as per the scriptures i quoted, God is NOT omnipresent, and simply has no need to be. Omnipresence is a man made concept.

 

[serpentdove]

You are not pardoned prior to repentance (Is. 55:7).

 

[chrysostom]

I did not write that scripture, Rev. 22:11 was inspired by God. All I can do is show you what it says. The bible is advising, here in the last chapter, that men may as well remain as they are; in other words, we do not determine the outcome! If you are filthy, you may as well remain that way; if you are unjust, then stay that way; WHY? Why would the bible say this? Because it really does not matter, the God of our salvation has us all covered. God is a planning predestined being, he leaves NOTHING to chance or human choice.

the very next passage
did you read it?

Revelation 22:12King James Version (KJV)

12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

 

[Mickiel]

the very next passage
did you read it?

Revelation 22:12King James Version (KJV)

12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

So? That just means God rewards good work. Now the Christian mind will limit that to just spiritual work , but millions of humans have done good works that are not spiritual in nature. They will be rewarded. That scripture has nothing to do with the common nature of man; which is what verse 11 is talking about. Sin is the common nature of man. And man cannot change his nature without the help of God, BUT, humans can live decent lives and not know God.

 

[chrysostom]

So? That just means God rewards good work.

so it does matter what you do

 

[Apple7]

So...

What happens after you post your goal of 600 Trinitarian-rendered verses?

What will you have accomplished?


:cigar:

 

[Mickiel]

so it does matter what you do

Well yes, in one sense it does, yes. We ought to try and do good, but I think the bible there in Revelations is just giving a bottom line message of salvation being a thing that nothing can stop, not even bad human behavior can stop God from giving eternal life with him. But religion, because of IT'S righteousness, can only view salvation as only being for the righteous.

 

[Mickiel]

So...

What happens after you post your goal of 600 Trinitarian-rendered verses?

What will you have accomplished?


:cigar:

I think I'll just post another 600 salvation verses; just to show they are there. Like this one in example; Luke 2:14, " Glory to God in the Highest, and on earth peace and good will toward men." This reveals that God has good will for all of humanity, and the biblical message pounds that continually.

 

[chrysostom]

not even bad human behavior can stop God from giving eternal life with him.

what about the second death?

 

[Mickiel]

what about the second death?

The second death is the death of the first death; death will be eliminated, not humans.

 

[Mickiel]

Why would God need an eternal hell in the New Testament , and not the Old Testament? No one in the OT was ever threatened with eternal hell punishment. In fact, nothing like the Christian hell was even remotely mentioned or suggested to Adam, Eve, Noah, Abraham, Lot, Moses, David, Solomon, Cain, even the people of Sodom and Gomorrah; there is no mention of the creation of the Christian hell or the purpose of it.

If the Christian hell were true, all these great biblical people would surely have been informed of it, don't you think?

Or are you thinking about this?

 

[Prizebeatz1]

My stance is, as per the scriptures i quoted, God is NOT omnipresent, and simply has no need to be. Omnipresence is a man made concept.

Thank you for the clarification. But does man define God or does God define man? How can we determine the nature of God if we have not experienced what is infinite and eternal? How can we experience what is infinite and eternal if we are unconsciously running away from spaciousness? Don't our beliefs defend us from the void that we experience once we quit trying to hang on? Do we notice how badly the personality must force this belief of separation from this infinite spaciousness? It comes up with anything to deny that it is one with it because admitting to this truth is it's own death. The personality just wants to survive but it's version of survival is actually death and not life. Those who don't know this are already dead. Then they die again during physical death. It is the infinite and eternal on the other side of the personality that is the true life of which Jesus speaks in the Gospels. I don't know if God is omni-present but I am not going to bet against it if He is already infinite and eternal. The purity of the virgin reminds me of my experience that there is not one spot that God does not cover. Not one blemish in His universal uniformity. There was not even a chance for doubt to survive in this presence. There's no desire for thought. It is utter rapture, ecstasy, paradise to fullest unsurpassable extent. This is a very very real thing. In fact, it is reality in itself.

When is this tendency to reduce God going to end anyway? We do this to God because we do this to ourselves as well. It manifests as a loss of self-esteem. No one can feel good enough about themselves, thus the need to avoid the feelings of worthlessness with beliefs. We know that there is something missing and that fuels the spiritual quest. What is missing is the experience of feeling our infinite and eternal worth. I suggest we don't stop until we feel it in full. We don't even notice how far we take the reducing God and reducing ourselves. The enemy prefers it that way. It's like putting a frog in water and slowly turning up the heat. We hardly notice anything is wrong because it is so subtle and then we wonder what's wrong with the world. What is going to stop us from taking things too far? Maybe we have already gone too far. I don't claim to know all the answers but clearly man has jumped to conclusions about the nature of God without actually giving God the chance to reveal himself to us as I also did for years. This is just my opinion so please take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Mickiel]

In John 12:32 Jesus promised that if he be killed, that he would draw all humans to himself. All humans will come to God at that point in time. Heb. 7:25, " He is able to save them to the UTTERMOST that come to God by him, seeing that he ever lives to make intercession FOR them."

The salvation of all of humanity is an uttermost promise, and this is good news for those who reject Christ.

 

[Mickiel]

There is good biblical news for unbelievers, Atheist and those who reject Christ in scripture, there is real hope, mercy, grace, kindness, longsuffering and love in that bible for them. In Matt. 12:20, " A bruised reed shall he not break, a smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send fort judgment that leads to victory." God is not out to break you; he will bring you with him into eternity.

 

[Apple7]

I think I'll just post another 600 salvation verses; just to show they are there. Like this one in example; Luke 2:14, " Glory to God in the Highest, and on earth peace and good will toward men." This reveals that God has good will for all of humanity, and the biblical message pounds that continually.

What ever you do, do not stop and defend anything you post.....ok?

You must complete the posting of your scriptures at all costs.....make sure that you try to stay logged into this thread as near 24/7 as possible....Ok?

 

[Mickiel]

What ever you do, do not stop and defend anything you post.....ok?

You must complete the posting of your scriptures at all costs.....make sure that you try to stay logged into this thread as near 24/7 as possible....Ok?

I am at 258 scriptures in post, so I have a ways to go. A way full of the salvation of humanity. In Matt. 5:3 blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of God. This is good news for all humans who are down and out, those of us who are confused and weak minded, and just don't know what to believe; yours is the Kingdom!