ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
uhh - it's a website that looks like it was put together by a shortbus full of "special" kids"?
is that the effect you were going for?
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Why would God need a hell?
- Thread starter Mickiel
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uhh - it's a website that looks like it was put together by a shortbus full of "special" kids"?
is that the effect you were going for?
Mickiel
New member
Well your right, I don't worry about it, humanity is already saved, but I like " Bearing witness to it"; I like telling people that Christianity cannot condemn them, because you like telling them that they are condemned. So its a matter of " Likes"; I like God and Christ, and I think they like the salvation of all.
God not only likes the idea, he thinks its " Good and acceptable!" 1 Tim. 2:3-4, " For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who WILL have ALL men to be saved!" Ohh, I like that scripture; man I like it. And I believe it. So I bear witness to it.
iouae
Well-known member
You may like that scripture, now you just need to understand it.
God WILL have all men to be saved, but you assume God gets all he wills.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
never gonna happen
Mickiel
New member
Oh no, I don't " Assume it, I KNOW he does!" God gets his way all the time! Job 23:13, " But he is of one mind, and who can turn him? What his soul desires, THAT HE DOES!" See I don't allow Christianity to pervert my view of God or salvation, I am free of that influence; I can read the bible for myself.
What God desires, THAT HE DOES, and no Christian can turn him from it. God desires that all humans be saved, and what he desires, that he does! He is not willing that any perish, but ALL repent, and that is what is going to happen. Religion is too late, they cannot limit the salvation of God. He loves us all.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
Mickiel
New member
I don't know God, but through scripture I know somewhat of him, in a very limited knowledge. And I don't let religion or Christianity get inbetween me and the word of God. That space is left alone, because I know how deceived religion is, Rev. 12:9. I have learned that God is more than what religion thinks; salvation is more, its FAR greater, because God is FAR greater than we know and understand. In Isaiah 45:23 he makes a Holy Vow to save everyone; a stunning scripture;, " I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return to me void; That unto me EVERY knee shall bow, EVERY mouth shall confess." Oh, Glory! God is serious about our salvation, he has sworn that ALL humans will be converted!
Praise God man!
This is the destiny of humanity, that mess religion is teaching does not describe the real God. He LOVES us! He loves us because he can't help himself, its how he is!
Praise God man!
This is the destiny of humanity, that mess religion is teaching does not describe the real God. He LOVES us! He loves us because he can't help himself, its how he is!
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
iouae
Well-known member
First off, this was Job speaking. And a lot of what Job said, God later disagreed with.
If God always gets what He wills then He must have willed Adam to fall, and this present evil world must be exactly the way He wiled it to be - by your logic.
Mickiel
New member
Allow me to use another; another cherry picked; Romans 14:11, " For it is written, as I live, SAYS THE LORD, ( so this is the Lord speaking), EVERY knee SHALL bow to me, EVERY mouth SHALL confess to God." The future of all humans is to submit to God; God will force humanity to bend the knee and be converted, there will be no choices given. It will not matter if men reject God, they will be forced to change. If they do not believe, they will be forced to believe!
And that's just how its going to be. God is not going to ask for submission, he will just MAKE it so!
Mickiel
New member
Of course he willed Adam to get conned by satan, God KNEW Adam and Eve were no match for the devil, and God did not help them in the garden. It was God who let the devil inside of the garden. And this world is exactly how God willed it to be. God WANTED Adam to get duped, because that created the NEED for Christ to come.
iouae
Well-known member
Notice in the scripture you quote, it included demons (things under the earth) and they are not converted or saved.
Those condemned to the lake of fire will bend the knee to Christ while receiving their sentence.
Again, you are assuming that bending the knee (involuntarily and unwillingly) = salvation.
Mickiel
New member
Your dog gone right I do! In my understanding, bowing to God and confessing to him, equals conversion.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
why did Christ NEED to come if God was gonna give everybody salvation anyways? :idunno:
Mickiel
New member
In Romans 5:18 we see the destiny of humanity, "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men, ( here is God setting up Adam for a reason), even so by the righteousness of one, ( here the need for Christ is created), the FREE GIFT came upon ALL men unto the justification of life. This is why Christianity cannot condemn unbelievers, its too late, their already covered.
You have to close your hell.
You have to close your hell.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
Mickiel
New member
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
the power of free will......
the power of free will......
Hi iouae,
We've gone over this concerning the issue of 'free will', and if individual free will is sovereign in determining one's destiny. If we accept this, then it is possible that some may choose 'death' over 'life', and ultimately be disintegrated, be wiped out of existence, expunged, terminated. In this view of 'conditional immortality', the choice is ever given to the individual soul, and the conditions and destiny of all souls are fairly adjudicated with perfect justice and mercy. Divine love and wisdom governs all, but if souls do have the choice of life or death,...then 'conditional immortality' holds, and is supported by many passages.
Universalism in one form or another is a wonderful proposition, assuming that ultimately every soul will repent and return to love. If divine love is ultimately irresistible, and all souls return to their true source and true nature (divine image and likeness within their own being), perhaps most souls will be saved, and only some eternally lost. - that is if souls can choose a final and eternal death by fully embracing iniquity and reaching a point of no return. There are many points and angles to consider on the subject. I've been sharing quite a bit of my views here and on the 'Is the doctrine of ECT biblical or not?' thread, with an earlier portal page here (if interested).
I agree much with some of the sentiments of Mickiel against ECT in principle alone for starters, along with other illogical aspects of the concept, how it demeans the character of God, defeats his will, and serves no purpose to torment souls TO NO END. At least in Universalism the fires of God are cleansing and purifying in nature, where only the sinful elements are destroyed, while the soul is saved during the process of purgatory, and Love ultimately triumphs, the divine will being all-supreme
- this is good and well, but we do have that question of 'free will' again,...and if its possible that some could choose eternal destruction.
the power of free will......
Hi iouae,
We've gone over this concerning the issue of 'free will', and if individual free will is sovereign in determining one's destiny. If we accept this, then it is possible that some may choose 'death' over 'life', and ultimately be disintegrated, be wiped out of existence, expunged, terminated. In this view of 'conditional immortality', the choice is ever given to the individual soul, and the conditions and destiny of all souls are fairly adjudicated with perfect justice and mercy. Divine love and wisdom governs all, but if souls do have the choice of life or death,...then 'conditional immortality' holds, and is supported by many passages.
Universalism in one form or another is a wonderful proposition, assuming that ultimately every soul will repent and return to love. If divine love is ultimately irresistible, and all souls return to their true source and true nature (divine image and likeness within their own being), perhaps most souls will be saved, and only some eternally lost. - that is if souls can choose a final and eternal death by fully embracing iniquity and reaching a point of no return. There are many points and angles to consider on the subject. I've been sharing quite a bit of my views here and on the 'Is the doctrine of ECT biblical or not?' thread, with an earlier portal page here (if interested).
I agree much with some of the sentiments of Mickiel against ECT in principle alone for starters, along with other illogical aspects of the concept, how it demeans the character of God, defeats his will, and serves no purpose to torment souls TO NO END. At least in Universalism the fires of God are cleansing and purifying in nature, where only the sinful elements are destroyed, while the soul is saved during the process of purgatory, and Love ultimately triumphs, the divine will being all-supreme
- this is good and well, but we do have that question of 'free will' again,...and if its possible that some could choose eternal destruction.- Status