ECT Why shouldn't I convert from Evangelical Protestant to Catholic?

[RichRock]

Those pictures are not decomposing bodies, they are holy relics. Please keep up with the traditions of your chosen sect.

Lesson for you, but this time I must charge because teaching your ignorant mindset is almost a full time job:
Decomposing relic: Corruptable holy relic
Non decomposing relic: Incorruptable holy relic.
You don't have to pay me now, I'll deduct the cost from your Village Idiot wages.
You're welcome, please call again for tomorrow's lesson lol.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Lesson for you, but this time I must charge because teaching your ignorant mindset is almost a full time job:
Decomposing relic: Corruptable holy relic
Non decomposing relic: Incorruptable holy relic.
You don't have to pay me now, I'll deduct the cost from your Village Idiot wages.
You're welcome, please call again for tomorrow's lesson lol.

What is interesting about your response is that it does not actually address anything regarding Catholic traditions regarding the veneration of relics and what relics are. If this is the level of commitment you are willing to devote to Catholicism, you might want to reconsider. Don't take me word for it, go read Cruciform's links. All four of them.

 

[lifeisgood]

Please go back to your village, they are missing an idiot.

I thought that would be the best you could do when confronted with the truth.

 

[RichRock]

See the part I highlighted? They pray to the body, asking for intercession, or to offer thanks for favors received.

I respectfully disagree. The sentence before the section you highlighted states 'The faithful spend time of prayer in the presence of the relic'. When they ask for the Saint's intercession on their behalf, they are directing the prayer to the Saint's spirit and not the actual corpse itself.
I may be wrong and I'm sure a Catholic can correct me on this point if I am, but that's how I see it.

 

[RichRock]

What is interesting about your response is that it does not actually address anything regarding Catholic traditions regarding the veneration of relics and what relics are. If this is the level of commitment you are willing to devote to Catholicism, you might want to reconsider. Don't take me word for it, go read Cruciform's links. All four of them.

You think as a protestant I haven't already studied it? Are you that naive? You think I didn't fully investigate subjects Catholic believe such as this, and Mary, and the Eucharist, and confession, and calling priests Father, and popes etc etc etc etc etc?
Free lesson for you: We are not all as ignorant as you. If you want to know about relics google it or start a thread.

 

[WizardofOz]

I respectfully disagree. The sentence before the section you highlighted states 'The faithful spend time of prayer in the presence of the relic'. When they ask for the Saint's intercession on their behalf, they are directing the prayer to the Saint's spirit and not the actual corpse itself.
I may be wrong and I'm sure a Catholic can correct me on this point if I am, but that's how I see it.

I think you're splitting hairs. They are praying to the saint, whose corpse is right in front of them. Of course they pray under the assumption that the living spirit of the saint can hear their prayers.

Whether they pray in the presence of the relic or pray to the relic body or pray to the spirit of the body is trivial semantically and otherwise.

 

[CabinetMaker]

I respectfully disagree. The sentence before the section you highlighted states 'The faithful spend time of prayer in the presence of the relic'. When they ask for the Saint's intercession on their behalf, they are directing the prayer to the Saint's spirit and not the actual corpse itself.
I may be wrong and I'm sure a Catholic can correct me on this point if I am, but that's how I see it.

Did you read the rest of the paragraph? Touch a card to the relic and that card becomes a thrid class relic it self that you can take home a venerate there. I can find list of pagan references to thus type of act, but nothing within scripture.

 

[CabinetMaker]

You think as a protestant I haven't already studied it? Are you that naive? You think I didn't fully investigate subjects Catholic believe such as this, and Mary, and the Eucharist, and confession, and calling priests Father, and popes etc etc etc etc etc?
Free lesson for you: We are not all as ignorant as you. If you want to know about relics google it or start a thread.

Since all I have to evaluate the depth of your studies are your posts on these threads I can only say no, it does not appear that you have studied these things in much depth. When asked about them you respond with ad hominem attacks and absolutely no personal opinion of how such practices benefit you. You present a week witness for your chosen sect.

 

[lifeisgood]

RichRock, please tell us that you are a Catholic already. It is painful to see you going through all this just because you want people to know that you are a Roman Catholic already and you want all protestants to be Roman Catholics. It is best to be upfront about things.

I, lifeisgood, for instance, would have more respect for RichRock's decision, if he/she came out and said, "I, RichRock, maybe was a protestant at one time in my life and now I have decided that I like Roman Catholicism better and have decided to become a Roman Catholic and I, RichRock, want everyone to know that and I want to convince all Protestants to become like me, a Roman Catholic." That, imho, would have more believability.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[RichRock]

RichRock, please tell us that you are a Catholic already. It is painful to see you going through all this just because you want people to know that you are a Roman Catholic already and you want all protestants to be Roman Catholics. It is best to be upfront about things.

I, lifeisgood, for instance, would have more respect for RichRock's decision, if he/she came out and said, "I, RichRock, maybe was a protestant at one time in my life and now I have decided that I like Roman Catholicism better and have decided to become a Roman Catholic and I, RichRock, want everyone to know that and I want to convince all Protestants to become like me, a Roman Catholic." That, imho, would have more believability.

Just my 2 cents.

Your inability to understand the original post is noted.

 

[lifeisgood]

Your inability to understand the original post is noted.

And your inability to confess that you are a Roman Catholic already is also noted.

No one can stop you from becoming a Roman Catholic.
You do not need anybody's opinion to make that decision.
You will be the only one responsible for that decision.
You alone will receive the rewards and the consequences of such decision.

Therefore, just come out of the closet already.

I would say the same to a Roman Catholic asking about them wanting to be a Protestant if the OP would be in reverse.

 

[RichRock]

I think you're splitting hairs. They are praying to the saint, whose corpse is right in front of them. Of course they pray under the assumption that the living spirit of the saint can hear their prayers.

Whether they pray in the presence of the relic or pray to the relic body or pray to the spirit of the body is trivial semantically and otherwise.

We agree that they are not praying to the corpse. Personally, I would not go and pray in front of a Saint's body/relic laid out before me. That's my choice and having checked the Cathecism of the Catholic Church references to saints I can find nothing to say I must. Seems to be a take it or leave it, up to you attitude, which is fine then. Personally, I'll leave it and wont bs going out of my way to find the few Church buildings in Europe that have this.
There are parts of Catholicism which are hard to accept or understand, which is why I have until next Easter (at least) before I would be able to join the Church. It is a time of discernment and reflection for me, giving me chance to learn about their faith and beliefs.

 

[RichRock]

Did you read the rest of the paragraph? Touch a card to the relic and that card becomes a thrid class relic it self that you can take home a venerate there. I can find list of pagan references to thus type of act, but nothing within scripture.

I don't know anything about it, maybe someone else on here does? What pagan references do you have?

 

[WizardofOz]

We agree that they are not praying to the corpse.

I think they are with the understanding that the spirit of the saint that occupied that corpse can hear their prayers.

There is a reason why Catholics want the relic to be physically present. They believe that the presence of the relic gives them a better connection to God through the intercession or presence of the relic and that the relic itself has divine powers.

So, a prayer to the saint is more effective if the corpse or relic is physically present. This is also why relics are categorized. "The wonder-working power of the saint was to be found not only in the entire body but also in every part of it and in objects that had been in contact with his person.” "They are like a conduit to heaven and divine power." "Relics have been a source of miraculous healing".

Personally, I would not go and pray in front of a Saint's body/relic laid out before me.

Nor would I. I find the practice bizarre and macabre personally. However, I am a supporter of religious expression so if others find comfort in the practice, that is just fine by me. I am not going to condemn the practice but I will simply reject it as not for me or my family.

When I pray I pray to God directly and I don't believe in intercession by anyone but Jesus.

That's my choice and having checked the Cathecism of the Catholic Church references to saints I can find nothing to say I must. Seems to be a take it or leave it, up to you attitude, which is fine then. Personally, I'll leave it and wont bs going out of my way to find the few Church buildings in Europe that have this.

Sounds good to me :thumb:

There are parts of Catholicism which are hard to accept or understand, which is why I have until next Easter (at least) before I would be able to join the Church. It is a time of discernment and reflection for me, giving me chance to learn about their faith and beliefs.

Join if you feel called. Being Catholic or Protestant won't save you nor does it condemn you.

I find this infighting mostly counterproductive and trivial.

 

[God's Truth]

That's nonsense. Catholics do no such thing.

Catholics venerate, and pray to the dead bodies for intercession and healing.

I hope this causes you to come out of that religion.

Look carefully, that is a decayed Catholic "Saint" canonized by a Catholic pope. Catholics display their dead "Saints" and pray to them for intercession and healing.

The Catholics use any body part that remains such a hand, a finger, a scull…

This is something that still goes on today.

See this picture, it is of your pope Benedict. He is praying to a decayed body in a glass casket.

Here is a picture of a skeleton of a "Saint" in front of a Catholic church in Munich Germany.

Here is an announcement for the tour of a Catholic "Saint" Don Bosco. "Don Bosco Among Us".

 

[God's Truth]

Those are the remains of one of your blessed saints. Instead if reporting it, you should be identifying the saint by name and start venerating them. By reporting the pictures you sound as if you are embarrassed by the Catholic tradition. If you are, well then, might think twice about converting.

That is right. Why is he offended? The Catholic church puts these remains of their saints on tour to be shared with Catholics around the world.

These remains are in glass see through caskets for a reason. Catholics intend for them to be seen.

There are some Catholic churches fortunate enough to have a saint's remains on display permanently.

 

[RichRock]

So, a prayer to the saint is more effective if the corpse or relic is physically present. This is also why relics are categorized. "The wonder-working power of the saint was to be found not only in the entire body but also in every part of it and in objects that had been in contact with his person.” "They are like a conduit to heaven and divine power." "Relics have been a source of miraculous healing".

Never knew that. Don't know if I could believe it either.

Nor would I. I find the practice bizarre and macabre personally. However, I am a supporter of religious expression so if others find comfort in the practice, that is just fine by me. I am not going to condemn the practice but I will simply reject it as not for me or my family.

When I pray I pray to God directly and I don't believe in intercession by anyone but Jesus.



Sounds good to me :thumb:



Join if you feel called. Being Catholic or Protestant won't save you nor does it condemn you.

I find this infighting mostly counterproductive and trivial.

The infighting has been constant throughout the thread, but mostly seems to be most vehement from fundamental KJV types for some reason.

I genuinely did start off the thread wanting to hear opinions, but by the end of the first page or so had heard so much anti-Catholic rhetoric I may as well have been back in Belfast during the troubles. Catholics and Protestants killed eachother everyday.
Debating wise, we are still doing the same as Belfast, except this time it is Protestant attacking Protestant who might become Catholic, but who becomes more Catholic as more Protestants post the same old topics over and over and he discovers most of those topics when researched (not all, but most) to be false claims based on misunderstanding and rhetoric.

Was refreshing to read your post though. People listen when they aren't told they are joining the whore of Babylon from page 1. (I've actually been to Babylon in Iraq anyway lol)...or to be told they deserve to go to hell, are cursed etc etc etc....

Anyway, the Catholic Church has warts, but so does the Protestant Church. Maybe I should just go and live with a tribe in the Atlas mountains for a few months like I did a few years ago, helped me understand humanity and respect those with various beliefs...not to mention no rat race, just contentment to be alive and well.

Thanks for posting

 

[God's Truth]

From one of Cruciform's link:

And, they are interceding for us to join them in heaven. Relics are a way for us to be connected to our holy brothers and sisters. Because the relic is connected to the saints who are eternally joined to Christ in heaven, relics are greater than a family heirloom. They are like a conduit to heaven and divine power. Throughout history relics have been a source of miraculous healing, inspiration of faith, and advancement of the Kingdom. The faithful spend time of prayer in the presence of the relic. They may meditate upon the holy life of the saint, ask the saint’s intercession, or offer thanks for favors received. Many times the faithful may be allowed to touch the reliquary or receive a blessing from the relic. Finally, a holy card or cloth touched to the relic becomes a new third class relic that can be taken home for future veneration. These should be treated with respect and remind the person of their moment with the saint’s relic. here

So yes, Catholics absolutely do pray to dead bodies of saints and ask them for favors, intercession, etc.

Thanks for posting that!

I want to expose the darkness of the Catholic church, so that I might strengthen others from wondering if the Catholic church might be the true and right way.

I was raised strict Catholic. The Catholic religion was my family's life. Even after being saved, and born again, I am somewhat disappointed with myself for sometimes wondering about the Catholic church...that maybe it is right, being such an old religion and all.
However, when I saw these pictures, and learned more about this practice of the Catholics, I had not ever again wondered if maybe the Catholic religion was okay. This act of the Catholics demolished any influence they might have had on me.

I want to strengthen others who love the Truth.

 

[God's Truth]

You think as a protestant I haven't already studied it? Are you that naive? You think I didn't fully investigate subjects Catholic believe such as this, and Mary, and the Eucharist, and confession, and calling priests Father, and popes etc etc etc etc etc?
Free lesson for you: We are not all as ignorant as you. If you want to know about relics google it or start a thread.

I would say that from the reaction you and other Catholics have about this, it is the first time you really had a good look at what your religion of choice teaches.

 

[RichRock]

Thanks for posting that!

I want to expose the darkness of the Catholic church, so that I might strengthen others from wondering if the Catholic church might be the true and right way.

I was raised strict Catholic. The Catholic religion was my family's life. Even after being saved, and born again, I am somewhat disappointed with myself for sometimes wondering about the Catholic church...that maybe it is right, being such an old religion and all.
However, when I saw these pictures, and learned more about this practice of the Catholics, I had not ever again wondered if maybe the Catholic religion was okay. This act of the Catholics demolished any influence they might have had on me.

I want to strengthen others who love the Truth.

Hang on just a little moment lady. You said earlier in this thread you were not protestant either, but now you say you are born again? You also said you don't believe in the doctrine of the trinity. Out of interest, how can this be if you are born again, as you say?