Why Homosexuality MUST Be Recriminalized! Part 3

[aCultureWarrior]

​

Twice. How many times was FDR elected ?

​

I am resting.

If B. Hussein Obama calls off the upcoming election and through an Executive Order declares himself "King for life", then FDR's 4 terms aint got nuttin on Barry.

 

[Jedidiah]

If B. Hussein Obama calls off the upcoming election and through an Executive Order declares himself "King for life", then FDR's 4 terms aint got nuttin on Barry.

And if it all of a sudden it starts raining doughnuts, Homer Simpson will be a happy man.

 

[jsjohnnt]

You are aware that FDR, because of his "New Deal", is responsible for the economic mess that we're into today aren't you?

FDR: Great President Or Socialist Disaster?
http://www.brianzins.com/2011/10/12/fdr-and-socialism/

Why not go back to Washington (as in "George") If he had not won the war, Obama would have never happened. How silly to blame FDR. I am no fan, but we have had plenty of time to "Americanize" his socialist programs.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
You are aware that FDR, because of his "New Deal", is responsible for the economic mess that we're into today aren't you?

FDR: Great President Or Socialist Disaster?

Why not go back to Washington (as in "George") If he had not won the war, Obama would have never happened. How silly to blame FDR. I am no fan, but we have had plenty of time to "Americanize" his socialist programs.

I've paid tribute to the "father of our nation" on numerous occasions in this 3 part thread (and other threads dealing with the Founding Fathers).

While you're reviewing this 3 part thread, take time to note how great George Washington really was and his view on homosexuality for that matter.

 

[jsjohnnt]

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior

Other than Thomas Jefferson wanting to castrate those miserable souls who engaged in the detestable behavior known as sodomy/homosexuality, it's been a felony in every US State for most of the history of the US (refer to Part 1's table of contents or do your own internet search).



Do your homework by reviewing the table of contents of all 3 threads (you can go to page one for the links). The act of homosexuality has always been referred to as "sodomy" in criminal statutes.



Wait a minute here: Are you saying that it's legal for two people of the same sex to engage in an absolutely filthy behavior, one that brings misery, disease and often times early death to those who engage in it?

If I'd known that I'd have started a thread and named it something like...

"Why Homosexuality MUST Be Recriminalized!"



"We" being the multiple personalities incessantly ranting inside that liberal brain of yours?

Regarding Romans 13: Anytime that you want to tell the readers of the thread what the legitimate role of government is (as seen through the Eyes of God), then please do.



It doesn't, in fact Jesus made it clear that the death penalty for non capital offenses (which sodomy/homosexuality is) should be rescinded.

Review the thread, it's amazingly informative.

You can frame the disgusting practices of the gay community all you want. You will get no protest from me. But is ALL legal, Slick, and Romans 13 tells us that we have to live with that fact.

You want me to go to your other threads for definition? When, you don't even know the diff between a verb and a noun. And exactly which case can you cite in which a homosexual was thrown into jail for being gay. Where did that happen?

But go ahead and begin your reign of terror. Me thinks you are all mouth on that score - just another wannabee "tough guy" pretending to understand the biblical (as in New Testament) argument on the matter.

Also, sodomy is not the only expression of homosexuality, so it cannot be "synonymous" with Homosexuality. Homosexual is a noun, and sodomy is a verb . . . . . . . . go back to 6th grade work on that Noun/verb thing. It has to help, if you can grasp the difference that is.

So, what was your biblical argument, again? And in which state was gay guy thrown in jail for believing and wanting to be gay? And why is the fact that the US sees homosexuality as legal, today, meaningless to you . . . . . . in view of the fact that we are told to obey civil law?

 

[TracerBullet]

​

Lincoln kept the republic together. FDR won WWII, Kennedy averted nuclear war, and W endured 9-11. Could you imagine what Al Gore would have done with 9-11 ?

Sit around reading a children's book. Oh...wait...nevermind

 

[Jedidiah]

Sit around reading a children's book. Oh...wait...nevermind

Now, are you referring obliquely to your -- and Matthew Vines' -- embarrassing reading of Romans 1 ?

 

[TracerBullet]

​

Now, are you referring obliquely to your -- and Matthew Vines' -- embarrassing reading of Romans 1 ?

The Pet Goat is referenced in Romans 1???

 

[Jedidiah]

The Pet Goat is referenced in Romans 1???

I suppose we shouldn't be surprised that you'd continue to evade this humorous treatment of Romans 1. So humiliating. lain:

“Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.” 2 Peter 3:15-17


Paul specifically used the Greek word paraphysi here, which does not mean "to go against the law(s) of nature", that would be Ενάντια στο. Rather it means to engage in action(s) which is uncharacteristic or against the nature of that person or more simply an individual denying his/her true nature.

Paul is writing about heterosexual women and men who "exchange" or go against themselves and their normal/inborn orientation for same-sex activities. It's that abandoning that is being condemned

 

[serpentdove]

[Either homosexuality or Christianity will be in the closet (Enyart).] "Unfortunately there are too many Christians with the persecution complex who feel that hiding out in a closet brings them that much closer to Jesus."

Then they aren't engaged in the battle. We are told repeatedly to stand not roll over and die (Isa 58:1, Ro 12:1-2, Jas 5:11).

Maybe they have not overcome the world, the flesh and the devil (Rom. 8:37; 1 John 4:4). Maybe they are girly men. :idunno:

"1 Thess 3:8 stand fast. Pictured here is an army that refuses to retreat even though it is being assaulted by the enemy. This is a frequent Pauline injunction (1 Cor. 16:13; Gal. 5:1; Eph. 6:11, 13, 14; Phil. 1:27; 4:1; 2 Thess. 2:15)." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1846). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

See:

Joshua 6, Wiersbe

"Adultery, while it is a horrid offense that needs to be punished once again by the civil magistrate because of the negative effect it has on the nucleus of society (the traditional family) is not an act of "sodomy"."

"Law without penalty is only advice." ~ Adrian Rogers

God has implemented the death penalty for Sodomites (heterosexual [Lev. 20:10–12] or homosexual [Lev. 20:13]).

The death penalty shall not be remitted (Nu 35:31).

A Sodomite is a perverse person like one from Sodom. Today we use the term generally to refer to a homosexual.

"Ge 13:13 the men of Sodom were exceedingly wicked. Lot’s decisions put him in dangerous proximity to those cities whose names would become a byword for perversion and unbridled wickedness. Their evil is the theme of chap. 19." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 34). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

 

[jsjohnnt]

Then they aren't engaged in the battle. We are told repeatedly to stand not roll over and die (Isa 58:1, Ro 12:1-2, Jas 5:11).

Maybe they have not overcome the world, the flesh and the devil (Rom. 8:37; 1 John 4:4). Maybe they are girly men. :idunno:

"1 Thess 3:8 stand fast. Pictured here is an army that refuses to retreat even though it is being assaulted by the enemy. This is a frequent Pauline injunction (1 Cor. 16:13; Gal. 5:1; Eph. 6:11, 13, 14; Phil. 1:27; 4:1; 2 Thess. 2:15)." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1846). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

See:

Joshua 6, Wiersbe

"Law without penalty is only advice." ~ Adrian Rogers

God has implemented the death penalty for Sodomites (heterosexual [Lev. 20:10–12] or homosexual [Lev. 20:13]).

The death penalty shall not be remitted (Nu 35:31).

A Sodomite is a perverse person like one from Sodom. Today we use the term generally to refer to a homosexual.

"Ge 13:13 the men of Sodom were exceedingly wicked. Lot’s decisions put him in dangerous proximity to those cities whose names would become a byword for perversion and unbridled wickedness. Their evil is the theme of chap. 19." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 34). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

Once again, a pathetic argument by those who would kill in the name of God. Or is it, "kill in the name of the Old Law." Your old law authority is hardly "Christian."

Try to keep up.

 

[TracerBullet]

​

I suppose we shouldn't be surprised that you'd continue to evade this humorous treatment of Romans 1. So humiliating. lain:

​

Yes your inability to actually respond to the sad response of the president on 9/11 must be very humiliating to you.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Then they aren't engaged in the battle. We are told repeatedly to stand not roll over and die (Isa 58:1, Ro 12:1-2, Jas 5:11).

Maybe they have not overcome the world, the flesh and the devil (Rom. 8:37; 1 John 4:4). Maybe they are girly men. :idunno:

"1 Thess 3:8 stand fast. Pictured here is an army that refuses to retreat even though it is being assaulted by the enemy. This is a frequent Pauline injunction (1 Cor. 16:13; Gal. 5:1; Eph. 6:11, 13, 14; Phil. 1:27; 4:1; 2 Thess. 2:15)." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1846). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

See:

Joshua 6, Wiersbe

"Law without penalty is only advice." ~ Adrian Rogers

God has implemented the death penalty for Sodomites (heterosexual [Lev. 20:10–12] or homosexual [Lev. 20:13]).

The death penalty shall not be remitted (Nu 35:31).

A Sodomite is a perverse person like one from Sodom. Today we use the term generally to refer to a homosexual.

"Ge 13:13 the men of Sodom were exceedingly wicked. Lot’s decisions put him in dangerous proximity to those cities whose names would become a byword for perversion and unbridled wickedness. Their evil is the theme of chap. 19." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 34). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

Well aCW, even your partner in that same padded cell is taking issue with you now. What say you to that?

 

[Christian Liberty]

Well aCW, even your partner in that same padded cell is taking issue with you now. What say you to that?

I'm not sure how I want to respond to this one, considering I (at least sort of) agree with SD's position, but I think the reasoning is weak, and agreeing with aCW on any point is its own punishment

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior

Regarding Romans 13: Anytime that you want to tell the readers of the thread what the legitimate role of government is (as seen through the Eyes of God), then please do.

You can frame the disgusting practices of the gay community all you want. You will get no protest from me.

Good, because I really do enjoying sharing the homosexual "culture" with others.

But is ALL legal, Slick, and Romans 13 tells us that we have to live with that fact.

Reviewing my original question:

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior:

Regarding Romans 13: Anytime that you want to tell the readers of the thread what the legitimate role of government is (as seen through the Eyes of God), then please do.

I'm coming to the conclusion that your answer to my question is:

'Any laws that secular humanist man legislates, even if it goes against God's laws, should be accepted'?

You want me to go to your other threads for definition? When, you don't even know the diff between a verb and a noun.

Not necessary, as I called this 2 part post "The most important posts in Part 1" for a reason (it deals with Romans 13 and the proper role of government).

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3310948&postcount=4195

I then went on to show what happens to a society when secular humanist man gets control of government and legislates against God's Wisdom.

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3310958&postcount=4196

And exactly which case can you cite in which a homosexual was thrown into jail for being gay. Where did that happen?

Ummmm...Lawrence vs Texas?

But go ahead and begin your reign of terror. Me thinks you are all mouth on that score - just another wannabee "tough guy" pretending to understand the biblical (as in New Testament) argument on the matter.

I'll have you know that I eat my Wheaties daily so that when I grow up I can be like Mike.

Also, sodomy is not the only expression of homosexuality, so it cannot be "synonymous" with Homosexuality. Homosexual is a noun, and sodomy is a verb . . . . . . . . go back to 6th grade work on that Noun/verb thing. It has to help, if you can grasp the difference that is.

Take it up with the LGBTQueer movement.

http://glapn.org/sodomylaws/usa/usa.htm

So, what was your biblical argument, again?

Romans 13 and numerous others stating the righteous role of government as seen through the Eyes of God.

Exodus 18:21 But select capable men from all the people—men who fear God, trustworthy men who hate dishonest gain—and appoint them as officials over thousands, hundreds, fifties and tens.
Deuteronomy 1:13 Choose some wise, understanding and respected men from each of your tribes, and I will set them over you.
1 Peter 2:13–14 13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.
1 Kings 3:28 When all Israel heard the verdict the king had given, they held the king in awe, because they saw that he had wisdom from God to administer justice.
Proverbs 11:14 For lack of guidance a nation falls,
but victory is won through many advisers.
Etc etc etc

Wait, you're not one of them thar "Gay christians" who thinks that God approves of "loving homosexual relationships" are you ja ja johnny boy?

And in which state was gay guy thrown in jail for believing and wanting to be gay?

To my knowledge no one was ever prosecuted for a crime for thinking about doing something. In order for a person to be prosecuted for sodomy/homosexual acts, they must first engage in the behavior.

And why is the fact that the US sees homosexuality as legal, today, meaningless to you . . . . . . in view of the fact that we are told to obey civil law?

“We must obey God rather than human beings!"
Acts 5:29

(and here I thought a church "administer" would know that).

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Well aCW, even your partner in that same padded cell is taking issue with you now. What say you to that?

That the LGBTQueer/sexual anarchist movement better hope that those who adhere to Old Testament punishment laws don't take control of government, as it's pretty difficult to evangelize to someone when they're dead.

I'm not sure...

The Jr. Libertarian's life summed up in three simple words.

 

[serpentdove]

Your old law authority is hardly "Christian."

The law if for the lawless (1 Ti 1:9-10).

Try to keep up.

:yawn: "New morality is just old sin." ~ J. Vernon McGee Eccl 1:9

 

[aikido7]

Christianity has circled the wagons--naturally so. We all live in a world of universal rights. Believers who deny human rights to others are outnumbered.

This is why there are so many folks today who are speaking out against both Christianity and Islam.

Both have conservative, fundamentalist strains: hypocrisy, bigotry, elitism, other-worldliness, patriarchy, tribal and homophobic.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

In these 20 pages you'll see a review of homosexual Adolf Hitler and his brutal SS, done not to convince TOL's Queen of Denial of anything, but once again to show the connection between today's LGBTQueer movement and the Third Reich.

LGBTQueer love and tolerance is once again shown (I get verklempt every time I think about how they want to share their disease infected blood with us).

The health risks that lesbians experience is discussed, and I've even shown the romantic side to riots.

I hope that you're not as shocked as I was (and still continue to be) when you read about how HRC founder and accused pederast/rapist Terry Bean had numerous underage boys over to his house (according to his neighbor).

It appears that academia is full of child molesters (which I showed in a recent post), and show in these 20 pages when I talk about a former USC "gender studies" professor who is doing a whopping 5 years in jail for raping little boys.

Oh, and for those sick and lost souls who believe that they're trapped in an opposite genders body but don't want to go through genital mutilation surgery, New York City is the place for you.

Table of contents for pages 261-280

A review of Klaus Muehller, the hardcore gay activist who was the liaison for the Holocaust Museum. Youtube videos (Part 1 and 2) of Scott Lively's "The Pink Swastika"; page 262, post #3916
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4143190&postcount=3916

NYC Passes Bill To Allow Transgender People To Change Sex On Birth Certificate Without Surgery; page 262, post #3918
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4143478&postcount=3918

Identical twins with identical interests? aCW discusses the supposed "gay gene" with an obsessed alwight the atheist; page 262 post #3928
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4143966&postcount=3928

Lawmakers John Kerry and Mike Quigley are amping up their effort to end the ban on gay men donating blood; page 264, post #3949
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4144115&postcount=3949

The Pink Swastika as Holocaust Revisionist History (Dr.Judith Resiman article reviewed for the benefit of TOL's Queen of Denial); page 264, post #3958
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4144179&postcount=3958

The Truth About Homosexuality and the Nazi Party (Bryan Fischer article reviewed for the benefit of TOL's Queen of Denial); page 265, post #3961
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4144196&postcount=3961

Convicted Anti-Christian Domestic Terrorist Sentenced to 25 Years in Prison ('Gay' marriage activist Floyd Lee Corkins II who was inspired by the hate of the Southern Poverty Law Center, sentenced for the attempted murder of the staff at the Family Research Council); page 265, post #3964
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4144212&postcount=3964

aCW refutes Art Brain's SPLC article on the Pink Swastika with Scott Lively's article "Homosexuality in the Nazi Party" and links articles from AFTAH's Peter LaBarbera exposing the Southern Poverty Law Center; page 265, post #3967
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4144251&postcount=3967

Throckmorton, history, and gays in the military (aCW reviews Bryan Fischer's article for TOL's Queen of Denial Art Brain); page 268, post #4017
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4145691&postcount=4017

aCW acknowledges once again that the thread is nothing but...; page 269, post #4031

Matthew Heimbach of Traditionalist Youth Network Aligns With Racist Terrorists (aCW reviews GFR7's beloved neo Nazi organization TYN); page 270, post #4039
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4147046&postcount=4039

'Gay' Nazi Skinheads (Scott Lively shows that homosexuals are among the most influential leaders of Nazi skinhead culture); page 270, post #4049
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4147073&postcount=4049

Nazi Tactics in “Gay” Politics (Scott Lively goes into detail showing how the present day LGBTQueer movement has modeled it's terrorist tactics after Hitler's; page 273, post #4092
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4149575&postcount=4092

A review of Grove City College's Warren Throckmorton (yet another supposed Christian defending homosexuality); page 273, post #4094
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4149591&postcount=4094

Hitler's hatred of Christianity reviewed; page 274, post #4100
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4149778&postcount=4100

Ex-USC professor and FBI fugitive gets 5 years in prison for child sex; page 274, post # 4102
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4150031&postcount=4102

Two Women Who Met As Ferguson Protesters Get Married (and who says that riots can't be romantic?); page 277, post #4152

$524,403 Gov't Study Examines Link Between Diabetes and Lesbian, Bisexual Women; page 277, post #4153
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4151403&postcount=4153

There's Nothing Obama Cares About Less Than Jewish Blood (Don Feder article); page 277, post #4155
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4151762&postcount=4155

GFR7, a follower of Christ? Page 278, post #4164

Linda Harvey: Don’t Shop at Macy’s Due to Their Pro-Homosexual, Pro-Transgender Agenda (female sales clerk fired for telling a teenage transvestite that he and his friends couldn't enter a female dressing room); page 278, post #4175
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4153072&postcount=4175

WATCH: HRC Co-Founder Terry Bean’s Neighbor Says Bean ‘Likes the Young Ones’ and Brought Home Underage Boys; page 278, post #4176
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4153079&postcount=4176

aCW talks about what being a Christian means to him; page 279, post #4177

"When hyprocrisy is a good thing" (a review of Selwyn Duke's article talking about the difference between giving into sinful temptation and promoting it); page 280, post #4193
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4155603&postcount=4193

Russian Roulette and consensual adult relations, aCW has another conversation with TOL's resident Drama Queen/Queen of Denial Art Brain; page 280, post #4199

 

[aCultureWarrior]

In these 20 pages the boyz and I discussed the LGBTQueer/sexual anarchist's new frontier (incest). Two of them didn't blink an eye at legalizing it, the other two came up with lame excuses as to why it shouldn't be.

That thoughtful Food and Drug Administration is comtemplating allowing those who engage in a disease ridden deadly behavior to share their blood with the general public (doesn't that make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside?).

Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger's ties to Hitler is shown again, and the childhood of homosexual/serial killer/cannibal Luka Magnotta is discussed. There's a post talking about Seattle's openly homosexual mayor Ed Murrray and his constituents, and you'll see why we here in Seattle are so proud of little Eddie boy.

Table of contents for pages 281-300

aCW explains to the barbarian why incest is wrong; page 282, post #4217; aCW asks the barbarian for his insight on what would cause incestuous desires; post #4222

Did homosexualist Art Brain refer to children with birth defects as "cancers"?; page 283, post #4244

Hitler and the Master Race; page 284, post # 4246
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4157753&postcount=4246

alwight the atheist jumps on the incest legalization bandwagon; page 284, post #4260

Speculation that Michelle (aka Michael) Obama has male body parts reviewed; page 285, post #4268
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4159599&postcount=4268

Ex-'gays' who have taken something bad and turned it into something good; page 286, post #4280
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4160271&postcount=4280

Canadian Judge Finds LaBarbera, Whatcott Not Guilty of ‘Mischief’ Charge for Protesting at University of Regina; page 286, post #4281
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4160278&postcount=4281

FDA recommends lifting lifetime ban on gay blood donors; page 286, post #4284
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4160311&postcount=4284

Run from sexual sins! aCW's response to homosexualist Art Brain and his doctrine of "private lives and consensual adult relations"; page 287, post #4293
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4160630&postcount=4293

Margaret Sanger, Sterilization, and the Swastika; page 288, post #4315
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4161671&postcount=4315

Gay Imam Ludovic-Mohamed Zahed: "Allah Does Not Speak against Homosexuality in the Quran"; page 289 post #4329; alwight the atheist ponders taking up the false religion of Islam; page 290, post #4341
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4163055&postcount=4329
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4163289&postcount=4341

A mayor to be proud of (openly homosexual Seattle Mayor Ed Murray and his constituents); page 290, post #4344
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4163494&postcount=4344

The childhood of homosexual/cannibal Luka Magnotta revealed; page 291, post #4351
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4163931&postcount=4351

aCW has a little birds and the bees talk with homosexualist gcthomas; page 294, post #4403

aCW has a conversation with school teacher the barbarian; page 294, post #'s 4406 and 4409; page 295, post #4419
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4165475&postcount=4406
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4165557&postcount=4409
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4165599&postcount=4419

For the record: aCW asks homosexualist GFR7 why homosexuality should remain decriminalized yet incest should remain to be against the law? (it all has to do with "breaking the law of empirical and transcendent order"); page 295, post #4424

aCW shares Part 1's two most important posts with Aikido7 (aka Abdul); page 299, post #4480
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4165776&postcount=4480