Lord's prayer is how Jesus taught us to pray.
Why you guys have so much problem about it?
ECT why don't you say the Our Father?
- Thread starter chrysostom
- Start date
Lord's prayer is how Jesus taught us to pray.
Why you guys have so much problem about it?
Well aware that is what you and yours "call it."
But that is not what the Apostle Paul called it -
Romans 5:
1. Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2. By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Romans 5:2's principle applied - Colossians 2:
6. As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7. Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11. In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the
body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12. Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14. Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15. And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17. Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
18. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19. And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
20. Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21. [Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22. Which all are to perish with the using;] after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23. Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
The Apostle Paul obviously had no respect for the ever endless will worship and humility, and neglecting of the body of men, given that the real issue is that the flesh is never satisfied; that those woefully ignorant in their reliance on "what makes sense" to them blinds them to the obvious - their endless need in their fleshly understanding of these issues, that by their works they will somehow make themselves closer to God.
Not even principalities and powers can accuse that you are missing some standard of righteousness the traditions of men would beguile you into believing you can add to the Cross.
Galatians 3:
1. O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2. This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3. Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
By your works?
Again - to those of you saved on here - the instruction is crystal clear - all you need do is walk by faith in it, just as, you were saved by faith:
6. As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7. Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Get this understanding out of the way.
THEN talk about this or that "prayer."
Cross Reference
New member
Sortta conditional it seems. Wouldn't you say? Conditioned upon what, do you suppose?
You would do yourself a world of good to study out every aspect of that prayer in light of Israel's "dress rehearsal" forty year wanderings through the desert; how He sustained them, etc.
All of which had served as a type of their Tribulation to come according to and under the Law Of Moses, Exodus 16; Daniel 9's prayer, Daniel 9's vision, Matthew 24's description; Revelation 3's "hour of temptation," et al.
Elaborate more on what you you mean by that; I don't want to read my "sense of" your words, into your words with so little to go on.
Cross Reference
New member
read this carefully
redemption comes from His blood
but
forgiveness comes from His grace
1.The old "context" spin. Lovely...a crafty dismissal, "punting" your own "argument."
No, explain why you do not:
-"shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing those things which Moses commanded,".
-"sell all that thou hast,"
-"tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ."
2. "statements are ambiguous and the context for them should be whole "-you
"The Lord's Prayer" statements are ambiguous and the context for them should be whole.
See how that works?
journey
New member
The Lord's Prayer was given as an example of how to pray - not something to memorize and say over and over again. I try to express to God what's on my heart when I pray.
Matthew 6:7 KJV But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Matthew 6:7 KJV But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
had no idea I would catch so many with the Lord's prayer
why not use it?
What makes you believe I believe I was made complete by reciting a sinner's prayer I, according to you; believed I needed to recite.
This reading into things... said reading into things which you then take to be the same as a writer's own intended sense...appears to be your recurrent pattern.
It is why you assert the assertions you assert on this forum.
As is the obvious case with many on this and every other thread; made obvious by their recurrent patterns; you only believe that you are being objective only because you believe you are... being objective.
The pattern running through many of your posts makes it obvious you have not established a means of knowing you have approached a thing... objectively... before, allowing yourself to run with your "findings."
This right here, is an endlessly fascinating study in itself.
Speaking of being objective; try to take my words to you here as a feedback as to room for improvement in a key area of discernment -of intended sense; rather than taking this as... some pronouncement about...a failure on you part.
You have caught no one. Rather; you have proven yourself blinded by your self will to ideas about what that prayer is actually about.
Cross Reference
New member
Quit with all the 'who struck John double talk' and give me an answer, if you have one. Yer wording this to death.
No one is saved by it! Jesus gave the lost sheep of Israel an example
of how to pray. If you desire to say it then, say it.
...IT'S FUNNY....
When pastors and preachers repeat the ancient theological idea that Jesus died as a sacrifice for our sins before God, and yet a short time later they laud the "Lord's Prayer" which specifically says we should come before God in repentance and a bloody sacrifice is not needed.
Obviously they are unable to take contradictions and discrepancies in the Bible seriously.
When pastors and preachers repeat the ancient theological idea that Jesus died as a sacrifice for our sins before God, and yet a short time later they laud the "Lord's Prayer" which specifically says we should come before God in repentance and a bloody sacrifice is not needed.
Obviously they are unable to take contradictions and discrepancies in the Bible seriously.
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glorydaz
Well-known member
I said the Our Father many times when I was a Catholic. I felt I needed to be told how to pray just as the disciples did. When I was a Catholic, I was under a schoolmaster.
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Then faith came, and the indwelling Spirit.
Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
No need to be told how to pray anymore. Praying has gotten personal. It comes from the heart and is never the same. Words of praise and thanksgiving.....personal. Requests.....personal. Praise....personal. The Comforter has come.
Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Why do you call it the Lord's prayer? All He said was;
“This, then, is how you should pray:"
Not, WHAT you should pray.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Matthew 6:9-15
After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Luke 11:1-4
And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.
2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
3 Give us day by day our daily bread.
4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.
God is most certainly the Father of those that He has fathered. I John 3:1-2, I Peter 1:23, Romans 8:14
We are most certainly to keep our God, our Father's name holy or rather sanctified, set apart from all others like Jesus Christ did.
We most certainly want God's kingdom to reign but that is up to us to implement. II Corinthians 5:18-20, as those given and committed the ministry of reconciliation and the word of reconciliation.
Believers want that God's will be done on earth as well as it is in heaven. This prayer being a model of things we can and should include in our prayers is not specific for my life or yours what would be the highest priority of what we can and should be doing on earth. Most certainly being a general request it is a good thing but God also instructs us to be specific about what we want. Philippians 4:6
God does not answer prayers not prayed, God wants us to learn the wisdom to be specific in our requests and those requests must be according to what God says He will grant according to instructions in His word. There are truths we should simply get busy doing and not be praying about as if we expected God to do all for us, to live our lives for us, God is God, we are us. We choose to live our lives according to the word of God as best we know and are willing to do at any particular time.
Some of the truths in this example have been out dated because Jesus taught his disciples to pray these things before Jesus died on our behalf.
Jesus, having died on our behalf made it possible for greater truths to replace the former principles that were works in progress.
In this age of grace, God's forgiveness to us is not dependent upon whether we forgive others or not. We should forgive others, Ephesians 4:32, but we don't do it to win God's favor, Jesus Christ already won/earned God's favor for us. We forgive because God in Christ has already forgiven us. We have no excuse not to forgive others when we consider what God has forgiven us for.
We do not have to pray for our daily bread, for as Philippians 4:19 states, God shall supply all our need as we walk with Him and are involved in doing His will in our lives not our own wills
God does not lead us into temptation, but when we find ourselves tempted, God always makes a way for us to escape that temptation. I Corinthians 10:13
Repeating a prayer that is simply a general outline for those of the lost sheep of the house of Israel is not right believing. Matthew 15:24
The accomplishments of Jesus Christ ushered in a new administration, where grace, not the law of Moses, is the basis of all do to love and serve God.
Why pray a prayer that ignores the accomplished works of Jesus Christ?
We should learn what God in Christ accomplished for us and live the best of what God has to offer to us
After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Luke 11:1-4
And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.
2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
3 Give us day by day our daily bread.
4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.
God is most certainly the Father of those that He has fathered. I John 3:1-2, I Peter 1:23, Romans 8:14
We are most certainly to keep our God, our Father's name holy or rather sanctified, set apart from all others like Jesus Christ did.
We most certainly want God's kingdom to reign but that is up to us to implement. II Corinthians 5:18-20, as those given and committed the ministry of reconciliation and the word of reconciliation.
Believers want that God's will be done on earth as well as it is in heaven. This prayer being a model of things we can and should include in our prayers is not specific for my life or yours what would be the highest priority of what we can and should be doing on earth. Most certainly being a general request it is a good thing but God also instructs us to be specific about what we want. Philippians 4:6
God does not answer prayers not prayed, God wants us to learn the wisdom to be specific in our requests and those requests must be according to what God says He will grant according to instructions in His word. There are truths we should simply get busy doing and not be praying about as if we expected God to do all for us, to live our lives for us, God is God, we are us. We choose to live our lives according to the word of God as best we know and are willing to do at any particular time.
Some of the truths in this example have been out dated because Jesus taught his disciples to pray these things before Jesus died on our behalf.
Jesus, having died on our behalf made it possible for greater truths to replace the former principles that were works in progress.
In this age of grace, God's forgiveness to us is not dependent upon whether we forgive others or not. We should forgive others, Ephesians 4:32, but we don't do it to win God's favor, Jesus Christ already won/earned God's favor for us. We forgive because God in Christ has already forgiven us. We have no excuse not to forgive others when we consider what God has forgiven us for.
We do not have to pray for our daily bread, for as Philippians 4:19 states, God shall supply all our need as we walk with Him and are involved in doing His will in our lives not our own wills
God does not lead us into temptation, but when we find ourselves tempted, God always makes a way for us to escape that temptation. I Corinthians 10:13
Repeating a prayer that is simply a general outline for those of the lost sheep of the house of Israel is not right believing. Matthew 15:24
The accomplishments of Jesus Christ ushered in a new administration, where grace, not the law of Moses, is the basis of all do to love and serve God.
Why pray a prayer that ignores the accomplished works of Jesus Christ?
We should learn what God in Christ accomplished for us and live the best of what God has to offer to us
God's Truth
New member
Do you agree that life is in the blood?