Why didn't God create Jesus.....

[chrysostom]

to redeem us
Jesus had to be God
God cannot be created

words have meaning
respect the meaning of words

 

[Tambora]

Who is this "they" you speak of and why this important?

Adam and the other original man God created.
In your scenario, the "other" would be Christ.

It matters because the kinsman redeemer was prophetic in OT.
The kinsman redeemer had to be blood kin.

In other words, Adam and all his descendants would have no kinsman redeemer if Christ was an original creation instead of being a blood kinsman to Adam himself.

 

[quip]

Adam and the other original man God created.
In your scenario, the "other" would be Christ.

It matters because the kinsman redeemer was prophetic in OT.
The kinsman redeemer had to be blood kin.

In other words, Adam and all his descendants would have no kinsman redeemer if Christ was an original creation instead of being a blood kinsman to Adam himself.

Makes sense.
Good response.

/thread

 

[bybee]

I'm assuming "a created Jesus" here...but the language is odd and why "blood kin" is important..I'm not sure why.

Blood is Life. In ancient times it had significance which influenced thinking and behavior that we no longer find necessary.
God does speak to us where we are at.

 

[keypurr]

to redeem us
Jesus had to be God
God cannot be created

words have meaning
respect the meaning of words

Jesus was a man. Born human to Mary, Christ is a form of God, not God himself. Christ is the express image of the father, that makes him a created form of God. God is a spirit, so also is Christ, but he took the form of man to die for us. Jesus is the body prepared for Christ as told in Hebrews 10:5. Christ was with God at the creation, Christ is the son God sent to us. Jesus is the pure sinless body that held that spirit Christ.

 

[Apple7]

Jesus was a man.

Yahweh is a Man of war; Yahweh is His name.

Exo 15.3

 

[Mocking You]

Adam and the other original man God created.
In your scenario, the "other" would be Christ.

It matters because the kinsman redeemer was prophetic in OT.
The kinsman redeemer had to be blood kin.

In other words, Adam and all his descendants would have no kinsman redeemer if Christ was an original creation instead of being a blood kinsman to Adam himself.

Yes, good answer. This can be seen here:

Romans 5:18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

 

[Base12]

Jesus is the Word.

The Word existed before anything was created.

John 1:1
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"

/thread.

 

[keypurr]

Jesus is the Word.

The Word existed before anything was created.

John 1:1
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"

/thread.

Jesus is not the word. Christ, the spiritual son of the most high God is the WORD.

Early translations use the word IT not HE. They are correct.

 

[Mocking You]

Jesus is not the word. Christ, the spiritual son of the most high God is the WORD.

Early translations use the word IT not HE. They are correct.

So you are arguing that EVERY translation we have is incorrect? All those scholars are wrong. (And I don't see the word He in John 1:1)

 

[Angel4Truth]

Of course, but why all the virgin birth nonsense...when otherwise **POOF** ----> a fully viable Jesus would have sufficed?

How can one fully identify with our weakness yet remain without sin, if not born as man?

Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

It was also fulfillment of prophecy that Jesus would be born of a woman.

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel."

Isaiah 7:14 "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Matthew 1:23
"The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means "God with us").

 

[Zeke]

He could have.

The work of the Cross was relational. Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet he did not sin

Philippians 2 also:
Php 2:3 Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves.
Php 2:4 Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.
Php 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Php 2:7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Php 2:8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
Php 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,
Php 2:10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
Php 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
So, there were a lot of reasons for this, including being close enough to set an example for us to follow, empathizing with the greatest capacity for reaching us, expressing Love in a tangible way ALL of us could understand on some base level, etc.

-Lon

Yet there is no literal observational proof concerning a literal blood related sacrifice, the story used duality portrayed as two separated personalities/covenants that represented the dual nature in everyone as one goes from ignorant slavery to the laws of matter/earth to liberty of the Spiritual that transcends the bondage of flesh, which Galatians addresses, the spiritual seed (Jesus) comes from above Galatians 4:26. The cross takes place within us when the Divine side of us is awakened/born and the lower nature rebels against it.

The literal is the lowest level of spiritual understanding even though it seems great to the natural mind, it is still flesh and blood based Matt 11:11, Christ Seed isn't born by flesh though it hosts it, it is born in flesh not the other way around! plus one has to experience all phases which includes failure to be an over comer in like manner.

 

[keypurr]

So you are arguing that EVERY translation we have is incorrect? All those scholars are wrong. (And I don't see the word He in John 1:1)

Check the content of the first chapter friend..

The WORD BECAME flesh, Jesus was born flesh so he did not become flesh. However Christ, God's true son, who was spirit did become flesh. Hebrews 10:5, Phil 2, Col 1.

Not every translation is wrong but the KJV is.

 

[rougueone]

Fair enough, though that aspect of Jesus' life is conspicuously absent from the Bible. If what you assert hold such importance to Jesus' views and teachings you'd think such an omission would be otherwise?

Nonetheless, Jesus is God or by some view the son of God, could not God impart this wisdom upon creation?

Wisdom an Excellent Gift of God....
…27 Then He saw it and declared it; He established it and also searched it out. "And to man He said, 'Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; And to depart from evil is understanding.'"

 

[rougueone]

Check the content of the first chapter friend..

The WORD BECAME flesh, Jesus was born flesh so he did not become flesh. However Christ, God's true son, who was spirit did become flesh. Hebrews 10:5, Phil 2, Col 1.

Not every translation is wrong but the KJV is.

Perhaps a more accurate description is....

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 " He--Jesus", was in the beginning with God.…john I
The Word became flesh--Jesus, and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. john 1:14.
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched--this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.1 John 1:1
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation......Col. I:15---- " He--Jesus", was in the beginning with God.… John I
He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is: the Word of God.....the Word was God....The Word became flesh----and made his dwelling among us.

Thus, Jesus is God. Not pre-existing God. Nor God pre-existing Jesus. As God-Jesus are the same. The Scripture validates this.
I know this maybe a little much for some to get wrapped around. it is so surreal. But that is our Holy God. Surreal.

Hope this helps.

 

[keypurr]

Perhaps a more accurate description is....

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 " He--Jesus", was in the beginning with God.…john I
The Word became flesh--Jesus, and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. john 1:14.
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched--this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.1 John 1:1
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation......Col. I:15---- " He--Jesus", was in the beginning with God.… John I
He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is: the Word of God.....the Word was God....The Word became flesh----and made his dwelling among us.

Thus, Jesus is God. Not pre-existing God. Nor God pre-existing Jesus. As God-Jesus are the same. The Scripture validates this.
I know this maybe a little much for some to get wrapped around. it is so surreal. But that is our Holy God. Surreal.

Hope this helps.

Traditional fables will not bring you facts.

Jesus was a man BORN to Mary, do not confuse him with the express image son at the creation. A man did not create this Universe, a spirit did. Have you not read in Genesis that the spirit moved across the face of the waters. This same spirit is the logos in John 1. The word in John 1 is not Jesus, it is the spirit Christ. This spirit came with the fullness of the father to dwell in Jesus. Jesus is the body God prepared to hold his true son Christ.

These thoughts are most likely new to you. It would be well worth your time to study them. Start with the express image of the Father and use more than one translation.

Peace

 

[Bright Raven]

Because he already was!

 

[George Affleck]

Jesus was given birth by a virgin....God had no hand in this?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
WRONG - WHAT ARE YOU REALLY TRYING TO DO - SPREAD DOUBT ?

Jesus had to be a Man because he had to be our Example and be Faithful to the END.

He ain't called Quip for nothing!

 

[rougueone]

to redeem us
Jesus had to be God
God cannot be created

words have meaning
respect the meaning of words

Amen.

 

[rougueone]

Traditional fables will not bring you facts.

Jesus was a man BORN to Mary, do not confuse him with the express image son at the creation. A man did not create this Universe, a spirit did. Have you not read in Genesis that the spirit moved across the face of the waters. This same spirit is the logos in John 1. The word in John 1 is not Jesus, it is the spirit Christ. This spirit came with the fullness of the father to dwell in Jesus. Jesus is the body God prepared to hold his true son Christ.

These thoughts are most likely new to you. It would be well worth your time to study them. Start with the express image of the Father and use more than one translation.


Peace

Gods spoken-written words say other wise. I prefer the translation given. It leaves no doubt.